Ban technique on tndrcadj,tndrcade?

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:54 am

Could some MARP Powers At Be please consider the technique employed by 'P' in his tndrcadj INP (1st)? It occurs at the very end of the game and, as P himself says, is a "permanent leeching" technique...

My own opinion is that allowing this technique destroys meaningful competition on this game. This justifies banning it.

-Graham

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:02 am

I should add that only P's side-firing method of leeching should be banned. As you can probably see, what P does is a very specific method and allows a player to last indefinitely with little skill.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:03 pm

I'd have to partially agree :) great game play and good leeching finding skills by P certainly seems "permanent." but as he got to 2Million more helicopters started coming so he really had to finish it before he accidentally died. it's certainly isn't timed in the sense of the word, but it doesn't look infinite to me enough to ban with out debate.

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:11 am

The helicopters increase? Sorry, I didn't notice that.

Well, I suppose I'll just have to beat the score myself. Shouldn't be a major problem.

Anyway, thanks for checking it out.

-Graham (GSH)

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:17 am

I'd forgotten what else made me think this technique was just a silly 'trick'... P had never used it up till now, and those were games (which I'd repeatedly beaten) in which he'd always used his remaining lives up at the end - as you do, to maximise your score. But in this game he completes the game even when he could have continued on much longer with his remaining lives.

Also: The Gamest Record is (only) 1,603,800. Maybe a Japanese player can confirm whether this is a known (and discredited) technique, since this score is very low by comparison and easily beaten with P's technique. Otherwise it would be an expert game.

In the meantime, I'll be taking another look at what those helicopters are doing...

-Graham

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:32 pm

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

nevermind about the helicopiters, it was a side effect of me watching it with speed, he could have gone on forever, there are no more helicopters that come after 2000000 than after 1500000. this looks like leeching although it should be voted on before we "tips and trick" it.

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:36 am

Chad wrote:http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

nevermind about the helicopiters, it was a side effect of me watching it with speed, he could have gone on forever, there are no more helicopters that come after 2000000 than after 1500000. this looks like leeching although it should be voted on before we "tips and trick" it.

That's fine by me.

Can we start a poll on it, then? Not sure if I can.

-GSH

P.. · Post by **P..** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:23 am

I think that it is the technique which should be forbidden of course.

However, probably, not only side shot but all earnings here should be made invalid if high score of this game carries out at all from beginning to end for the last level leeching.
That is because it is very tedious no matter the leeching by the last level may be what form.

A vote result -- how -- be -- I will not carry out high score competition about this game from now on.
And the replay file which became the origin of an argument is deleted to 1/11.

thanks.
(very poor english sorry.)

p.s.

I played 89 times until I generated that replay file.

Among those, it is about 15 times to have taken laser, to have taken 7up and to have not made a mistake to an enemy's headquarters ground.
Among those, it is 7 times to have followed and arrived at the last level, without making a mistake by taking a side shot in an enemy's headquarters ground.

In the 7 times of inside...
It is 3 times to have been damaged before working.
It is 1 time to have been damaged by a soldier's slanting cartridge while having worked.
It is 2 times to have been damaged by the cartridge of the helicopter from the upper part while having worked.
A success is 1 time (that play).

Although it seems to play simply, it is difficult to have suffered troubles very much and to do once again. (x_x)

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:04 pm

thanks for the explaination, you (or your translator) don't have bad english at all.

wuzel · Post by **wuzel** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:23 pm

i ve watched that inp and i really admired P's play.
does he really shoots so fast?? at my local arcede that was a moethod to smash the shoot button very quickly at the beginning of the game 2 made an autofire bu i tried this under mame and i cant made it.
about leeching : i think that this kind of leeching sholud be allowed for some good players as P.... is. its like slam dunks with traveling in nba - only true all stars are given the permission to do this.
P i really admire your play - this inp should be confirmed i will vote yes for this players leeching and all other players who can play like this.

P.. · Post by **P..** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:00 am

Now I deleted all my "tndrcadj" inp files.
It is thankful to all people that looked at this replay purposely.

wuzel wrote:does he really shoots so fast??

I do the tap of the button by turns by the index finger and the middle finger like the keyboard of a piano.
If it is this method, I can do a tap almost 7 to 9 times in 1 second.
Almost all plays are performed now.

Another method.
1. A button is put with an index finger and the third finger.
2. Right and left are made to go about 1-2cm as if it twitched.
I can do a tap almost 10 to 16 times in 1 second.

I want to use this, if true.
However, it is the situation that it is suspected whether to use auto-fire also by the method written first.
It is used in the situation limited very much only for a moment.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:11 pm

I think i checked your recording for autofire and it did not register as autofire, and it really should NOT be detected as such because your presses will very unlikely have the signature of an autofire mechanism. Feel free to use that press method, i'm sure you and the leaders in hyper olypics track and field can share some ideas. And please upload a non leeching recording i'm sure you can be at the top.

horsie · Post by **horsie** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:56 pm

tndrcade does allow you to hold the button down... "built-in" autofire, if you like. It looks like you're firing fast when you're really not. Unfortunately the autofire is limiting, but I can get much more shots in by doing it manually. Frankly, with the laser (which I only learned from P) this is hardly needed, which kinda spoils the game for me.

wuzel · Post by **wuzel** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 1:04 pm

i had no idea that i can gain laser in this game before P showed it. sometimes at arcade i was able 2 make a bonus from a bird but other things bleh - U rule man.
laser spoiling the game?? go on ane get it - for me its the prize for good playing.