Jumper split: vote

[Kale]

This is a global modification of any games that has a Jumper setting (like the Toaplan 2 games) that counts as a DIP-Switch setting rather than a candidate for a split (i.e. counts as a kind of "clone" instead of just putting everything on a single romset). This applies to various games (i.e. at the time I'm writing I still need to check the whole source), most noticeable ones are toaplan2.c games. For example Dogyuun we have:

Code: Select all

	PORT_DIPNAME( 0x80f0,	0x8030, DEF_STR( Region ) )	PORT_DIPLOCATION("JP:!4,!3,!2,!1,FAKE:!1")
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x8030, DEF_STR( Europe ) )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0010, DEF_STR( USA ) )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0020, "USA (Atari Games Corp.)" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0000, DEF_STR( Japan ) )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0040, "Hong Kong (Charterfield); no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0050, "Korea (Unite Trading); no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0060, "Taiwan; no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0070, "USA; no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0080, "Southeast Asia (Charterfield); no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x0090, "Hong Kong (Charterfield)" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x00a0, "Korea (Unite Trading)" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x00b0, DEF_STR( Taiwan ) )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x00c0, "USA (Atari Games Corp.); no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x00d0, "Southeast Asia (Charterfield)" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x80e0, "Europe; no speedups" )
	PORT_DIPSETTING(		0x00f0, "Japan (Taito Corp.)" )

Listing the Jumper in the DIP-SW menu is wrong anyway for MAME emulation (you can't technically change that on a real PCB without HW mods). They should belong to a different sub-menu anyway.

[Chad]

So voting yes means we must split games IF they have any jumper setting? Should it not conditionally be added that a split should be made when the jumper setting makes a difference in the game? Don't most jumpers just change a language/region (sprite changes only), or add blood etc? It's only the jumper settings that make the game play different that matter for a split.

[Kale]

Well, voting Yes means auto-split according to the region, just like you would do with a normal MAME parent-clone thing. I've already discussed to various devs and they all agree that "jumpers" must belong to "Driver Configuration" sub-menu anyway i.e. it's a special menu that pops up in TAB menu when you launch the game, it should save the input just like everything else (i.e. various MESS drivers uses it for changing stuff like the monitor type or the RAM installed)

[mahlemiut]

To my mind, jumpers are not all that different than DIP switches. They can be changed, unless someone went and welded it on or something silly like that (what the case is here, I don't know).

Split should just be between Japan and all other regions, no point adding more if they're all the same.

[Kale]

Well, it's the same thing as having dozens of identical clones where it applies. And actually if we don't test the individual settings we never know if there's any difference in the first place.

[Kale]

And, just to point:

It's ok to have tons of gamblers and multigame shit on MARP played just for the LB points.
It's not ok to do this thing, the four guys that voted no so far presumably are Editors. Because then it requires work, and the lack of regulation from the staff is a feature of MARP.

And well, I *win* in both cases, anyway. It proves my point, that is that MARP isn't for hardcore players at all.

[Chad]

Editors for the most part DONT want gambling games in the leaderboard. Don't blame the gambling games on marp; marp only follows mame, marp is here to provide a way to post a recording for ANY mame game, if mame has gambling games they'll be in marp. We are trying to get the gambling games off the main leader board. They belong off an expected arcade competition leaderboard because gambling games are casino competition games and not arcade competition games. Doing this requires some technology to filter the gambling games out, it'll get there. People are not affraid of work, just trying to allocate things that put food on the table over things that don't put food on the table (but are just as important though don't get done fast.)

I really think there should be a split for any change in a game that offers a different way to play, that's why at HARP we can split a game in ANY way (even if there are only sprite changes in the Clone competitions.) But at MARP we've always only split when there was a clear change in game play and all regional dip/jumper changes don't automatically make a clear change in game play. This is why i haven't (and probably many others) haven't voted yes yet.

[Kale]

I really don't understand the part where you all have to follow us blindly.
-Where is written? Why you all think is a damn good idea to do so?
-Why you have to do awkward rules for some games just for the sake of doing them? Is it that hard to do speed runs for games that are worth ZERO point ZERO for score?
-Why a site named "Action Replay" has far more interest for gamblers and shitty tabletop multigames so you don't move a finger to stop this abuse, and we are talking about an issue that is alive from YEARS? And this isn't an issue that has either a slow or fast momentum, it has ZERO momentum so far other than just making a soap opera between me and you in the other topic ...
-Why the site is so damn bitrotted so it contains outdated pages made in 1998/9 (I presume) plus it has kindergarten faults that allows a Chinese guy to use a bot for "editing" his "description" so he has more visibility for his (good/fake) recording?

Final question, returning to the topic:
-Why having Dogyuun splits per region is a "bad" idea while having 8 different sets for Golden Axe is a good one? Because you "follow" us? I'm proud of this but actually no, I really fail to perceive this point ...

HARP has a great structure just because it thinks that whatever answer you would give to these questions are plain bullshit, caused by lack of bravery in taking action instead of just doing bluff and smoke.

[Chad]

Doing splits is complicated at marp for *PL*, it's implemented as text changes to game names, and he has to manually keep track of them and add new games surrounding them. That's the driving factor of limiting splits of existing marp games. If we can make some technical changes that are promised to us from zwaxy, we might be able to manage this more effectivley and take a long standing burden off of *PL*.

The rules are perhaps stale, They don't seem terribly offputing, most of them are in the right in trying to keep the site competative. I wouldn't know where to start overhauling them, and even if we could, you can't fix all problems.

[Phil Lamat]

the four guys that voted no so far presumably are Editors. Because then it requires work, and the lack of regulation from the staff is a feature of MARP

I hope Pat won't strangle reading that
His work is invisible but more than real (handling all those massive updates with newer versions is not a piece of cake).
Concerning me, I'm a little absent these days because of real life, with mathematic obligations at work, mainly concerning the Turing machines (2012 is the 100th anniversary of his birth) but I will hopefully have more free time in November.

In the meantime, you've launched a poll, all community can vote, would you --at least-- respect the result ?
This is called democracy

Editors for the most part DONT want gambling games in the leaderboard. Don't blame the gambling games on marp; marp only follows mame, marp is here to provide a way to post a recording for ANY mame game, if mame has gambling games they'll be in marp.

Same for me, the first M from Marp is for MAME.
Concerning leaderboard, I would purely and simply erase it, it doesn't mean anything

[Kale]

In the meantime, you've launched a poll, all community can vote, would you --at least-- respect the result ?
This is called democracy

Hah, really, tell me the exact part where I've failed to perceive the "democracy" in the first place. And also tell me the meaning of the Lucky Luke photo from TJT in the other topic, while you are at it.

Concerning leaderboard, I would purely and simply erase it, it doesn't mean anything

So ok, run a poll and ask for the removal, if you are brave enough to do so.

[Phil Lamat]

Hah, really, tell me the exact part where I've failed to perceive the "democracy" in the first place.

You talk disrespectfully about people not voting like you, explaining they can't think by themselves, only "don't want too much work".
Negation of others' vote is not very democratic.

And also tell me the meaning of the Lucky Luke photo from TJT in the other topic, while you are at it.

Lucky Luke's horse is called "Jolly Jumper".
A certain sense of humor was needed there, but your last posts show this is not your main quality.

So ok, run a poll and ask for the removal, if you are brave enough to do so

If anybody else asks, I will soon. No problem for me.
Maybe we can discuss first about poll options (see other thread) before you start complaining when it's launched

[Kale]

Hah, really, tell me the exact part where I've failed to perceive the "democracy" in the first place.

You talk disrespectfully about people not voting like you, explaining they can't think by themselves, only "don't want too much work".
Negation of others' vote is not very democratic.

I don't think I've removed negative votes from the poll, just gave an opinion about the results (which is possible, since that the poll results are public anyway).
And well, the fact that you're there trying to impress others with this trash talking with me contradicts your own opinion about being "democratic" anyway.

And also tell me the meaning of the Lucky Luke photo from TJT in the other topic, while you are at it.

Lucky Luke's horse is called "Jolly Jumper".
A certain sense of humor was needed there, but your last posts show this is not your main quality.

I take my sense of humour over being presumptuous. Guess that you don't even know the meaning of my current avatar anyway ...

So ok, run a poll and ask for the removal, if you are brave enough to do so

If anybody else asks, I will soon. No problem for me.
Maybe we can discuss first about poll options (see other thread) before you start complaining when it's launched

You don't get the bigger picture:
If MARP is currently a bit-rotted mess is because your (editor) lack of willpower of changing the situation in a smart and decise way. The situation says that **PL** is going to add another 7000 sets just because MAME (or actually, Haze) does it in the next version in a very dumb and awkward way ... thanks God it's not a job I have to do anyway.

[Phil Lamat]

Guess that you don't even know the meaning of my current avatar anyway ...

It's from a movie with Toto (Gli onorevoli, 1963).
For the rest I won't answer to your attacks anymore

[Kale]

Thanks God, because you're starting to bore me to death.