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LN2 wrote:Here is the key to score high on this game.

I had figured it out so it's likely the same strategy the WR holder used.

I did it one day "accidentally" in playing with a full swing hit that was like a bunt and figured...whoa, I can repeat this over and over again by bunting.

My personal using the below technique was around 600k.

It does take good timing to maintain though.

Ok....get baserunners on 1st and 3rd with less than 2 outs. This generally is not difficult in the first 2 innings. In later innings it can be very difficult to setup. If you don't get it setup in the first 2 innings, quit and start a new game.

Now for the next batter, BUNT(as JTC pictured above!)...and start your runners!

The fielder will throw to home plate to try and get the runner coming from 3rd base.(if there were 2 outs, then the fielder just throws to first base for the last out)

So you for a moment redirect your runner back toward 3rd once the ball is on the way home...then the catcher then throw toward second base to try and get your other runner.

Then immediately send your 3rd base runner back toward home once that ball is on the way back toward second.

The throw to second base to try and get your other runner is too late...runner safe. Then the second basemen throws home to try and get your other runner again. At this point, send your runner, who is now standing at second base, toward third.

The throw is too late to get the runner at home plate...then the catcher throws to third base...again too late....runner safe.

All runners safe....1 run scored...still have 1st and 3rd base runners.

repeat indefinitely.

JTC, I think for this bounty challenge this technique can't be allowed.

it is a gray area for TG...although a couple years ago when we discussed this I could not remember the exact details of this tehcnique...but now I suddenly do. hehe

Have fun with it!

Rick, should this techique be banned at MARP in your opinion?

Is this style of play:

Using a game "bug" for indefinite, easy leeching.
Not playing the game as it was intended.
?

(Weehawk, I'd rather have this disussion in this thread than regulation forum, thanks)

it's a really tough call IMHO....cuz in a sense you are playing "baseball".

the game just lacks the intelligence to just throw to first and yield the run.

I can understand a game doing that the first time...but then the next and next and next time...change the priorities so you get an out instead of allowing a "big inning".

Thanks for your answer Rick.

ln2 wrote:it's a really tough call IMHO....cuz in a sense you are playing "baseball".

Ah, ok...I'm not completely convinced by this argument though.
However, my knowledge of baseball rules are pretty much non-existant.

I'll be leaving the rules as they are then, no rules. If TG decides not to allow this tactic, then MARP might want to follow TG on this one.
TG discussion

What is "baseball"?

The TJT wrote:Thanks for your answer Rick.

ln2 wrote:it's a really tough call IMHO....cuz in a sense you are playing "baseball".

Ah, ok...I'm not completely convinced by this argument though. :)

ok i'll chime in at the risk of being shunned again with baseball talk..

take this recording for example

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/d/0/6/ir ... _win65.zip

awesome patience and pitching bravado to complete a full regulation game displayed here, seriously i don't think this deserves less than a 2nd place to money hungry leechers. The champion baseball bunting tactic is defined to be well in the marp leeching rule IMHO. It's in the rules of baseball for sure but it's also not attmempting to continue (or in a better word "play") the game. Sure there are other tricks that can be done in baseball to prolong the game but this one can be done adinfinitum, thus definitley with in the motion of progressing in the game.

that is where it's a gray area.

You are "play"ing the game. To "advance" a baseball game toward the end means getting outs...or letting yourself be out.

Ok, so if someone was able to hit home run after home run after home run you would disallow that as well? Oh, they are not advancing the game to later innings. Baseball is unique in that if you avoid getting out then the game does not advance(unless some timelimit aspect to the game)

at some point the gamer does mess up the timing of the runners so does get the out and the game advances....then it is a matter of setting up the situation again in a later inning to get more points again.

TG actually allows this type of leeching because you can't tell someone they aren't allow to do something that is just playing baseball.

Applying part of your above analogy to other games someone that plays 25 screens of mspac scoring 175k is better than someone playing 22 screens and scoring 275k.

We are just using a logic flaw in this baseball game to manipulate where the ball is thrown so your runners are safe. It isn't even a glitch...no different than controling the monsters in mspac or pacman. You are taking advantage of the rules of your opponents.

In Championship baseball, without using this tactic I had games of around 120k just swinging away and taking the occasional hit by pitch or walk etc. the game yields as well.

Outrun...oh, we allow that flaw in the game to not even drive on the track so you can go at full speed around some areas that are impossible otherwise...reaching scores not possible without using the technique.

Well, that is all this is...playing baseball though...not cheating at the game like driving at full speed offroad is.

Perhaps we can have a separate track though with custom scoring that is based on how many innings you play and how many runs your opponent scores...NOT how many runs or points you score.

that might be cool as a separate track.

I can't believe this falls under the MARP leeching rule when there are many other cases that are far worse that do not fall under it.

Yes, I agree that play in this manner does not necessarily show who is the most skilled at the game...but you have that case for 100s of games.

I agree that this shouldn't be banned by the leeching rule. Its definitely a gray area, but the whole idea in baseball is to score runs and not get out. That is advancing in the game. On the other hand, if the tactic involved a method of getting an infinite number of hit by pitches or walks, I'd probably disagree, even though that is also scoring runs and not getting out. But in this case its a method of getting an "infinite" number of safe hits. Sure, it takes a lot (if not most) of the fun out of competing on the game, but that is true for a lot of games.

-George

Believe me, when I use this method my eyes and head change to green after 1 hour game. I'm fear what can be after 5 hours for example

This technique is allowed IMO. However, would be nice to get other variaton... split it on "with" and "without" this technique. I don't remember the name of the game now, but other classic game on MARP was marathonable in one romset, and not marathon in other clone. It looks ok. But I am not sure if this game have working clones...

Zhorik wrote:Sure, it takes a lot (if not most) of the fun out of competing on the game, but that is true for a lot of games.

gag me. that's the point of putting rules like this in place to make the games fun for everyone not just for the people who want to leech... this clearly is a repetative leeching maneuver "safety spot" (the kind by which the rules are meant for), yes technically (by the lamest of terms) you are continuing the inning and playing the game but your not doing anything else, how the heck is that different than any other form of leeching. name me one game where the leeching is banned and it's a worse breaking of the rule than this technique.

I think you mean name a game where the leeching is just as bad or worse and is allowed.

I gave one to you...Outrun. Clearly a racing game does not intend for you from a specific timing of control to drive offroad at full speed avoiding the risk or skill needed to get around the other cars.

It allows you to score much higher with this technique.

Mario Brothers....going around on the early levels just leeching out points from the fireballs and slightly later levels like stage 9 leeching off the slipice etc. with no thought of advancing the level...at least for a little while.

Hmmm, Crush Brush... roll back and forth on a couple of the rom sets amassing tons of points versus advancing to the next board.

Ok, the last 2 are definitely allowed because there is an element of risk in doing it. Well, there is the risk in Championship Baseball if you start or fake a runner back a little early or late, you will be out.

lots of games where you build up men then intentionally kill yourself at spots to then leech out more points on your remaining lives before finally finishing the game on your last life.

others play these games straight up and show more skill but come short in points from not using these leeching tactics.

some are fine cuz the risk involved...but others aren't where a few like Outrun you actually are reducing most of the risk once you are offroad.

ok, you have to practice and learn the technique for offroad Outrun racing...no different really than learning the bunt-manipulate runners technique for big points.

Face it, it's a flaw in the game....but playing the game by the rules of the game.

Other cases you are exploiting a flaw in the game...but the flaw is in fact against the general rules of that type of game.

I agree with the above though....have 1 track that allows this technique...and another track that allows NO bunting.

Then we see if another leeching technique can be figured out not limited to what you restrict this time....maybe not.

what if you get good at fouling off many pitches where you can draw a walk for 20 batters in a row...would that be allowed(another leeching technique but definitely harder to execute than the bunting technique)? hmmm....

sounds like that wouldn't be either.

we all agree it's a gray area.
so what is baseball for this game then? something other than baseball I guess.

In my mind baseball is fundemantally different than most other games. The whole idea of scoring in baseball is to NOT advance in the game (unless you're fielding). On the vast majority of other games you can argue the game designer's intent was for you to try and advance levels and/or reach the end of the game. In baseball that's just not the case; the idea both in a video game implementation and the real world is to stay in the same inning batting in as many runs as you can as long as you can.

If, for example, you could score points by hitting off an infinite number of foul balls, I'd call that leeching. Otherwise IMO this is in the same category of running a pattern forever on a pattern game like Pac-Man or Jungle Hunt. Boring as hell, but fair game.

PS - I have no idea what driving off-road in OutRun has to do with leeching discussions.

Zhorik wrote:PS - I have no idea what driving off-road in OutRun has to do with leeching discussions.

I thought it was analogous in that you a doing something that allows a much higher score to be achieved. It was in regards to Chad's context.

Chad was saying that scores that play through the 9th inning just swinging away etc. weigh more to him than replays using the bunt leech technique.

Ok, watching a replay of a guy driving off the road half of the race versus someone racing legitimately...I put a lot more on the one racing legitimately....although the offroad one has some entertainment value and display of skill as well.

That is a case where you are exposing a flaw to in a way "break" the rules.

yet for Championship Baseball...you are playing by the rules...yet Chad does not want to allow that.

He wanted a worse example that is allowed. There it is IMHO.

TG allows it simply because not to allow it means not playing an aspect of baseball...which is what the game is...baseball.

yeah, it makes some much lower scoring replays actually better or more interesting play overall.

Ok, so I use the bunt-leech tactic for 1 or 2 innings...then play out the game swinging away.

Oh, my completing the game means nothing compared to someone else completing it?

If I won 52-35 and someone else wins 15-2 then yeah, the 15-2 would really interest me to see how they limited the other team to a measly 2 runs.

I think a track not based on the current game score but #runs by the opponent and innings played would have it's own separate merit that any scoring leech trick can't touch. The trick could be used to get you a nice lead so you get to play through the 9 innings....but for this type of track, it's defense that really counts here.

although that is only part of the game also. see? can't really have one that is fair to all aspects.

Chad wrote:

Zhorik wrote:Sure, it takes a lot (if not most) of the fun out of competing on the game, but that is true for a lot of games.

gag me. that's the point of putting rules like this in place to make the games fun for everyone not just for the people who want to leech... this clearly is a repetative leeching maneuver "safety spot" (the kind by which the rules are meant for), yes technically (by the lamest of terms) you are continuing the inning and playing the game but your not doing anything else, how the heck is that different than any other form of leeching. name me one game where the leeching is banned and it's a worse breaking of the rule than this technique.

In Champion Baseball it's not leeching, it's method, I don't see any other method for this game, it's impossible to get good score or interesting replay without this method. Try to play on it.

I go by the rule "If it puts me to sleep, then it's probably leeching"

I watched one inp, and that was more than enough for me.