forums.marpirc.net

Hi all,

I see new versions of MAME being released frequently together with the source code (http://www.mame.net). Why isn't the source code available for every WolfMamePlus version ? Isn’t it part of the open source community to distribute the source as well for every new/adapted version?

If someone knows where to find the source code for the latest WolfMamePlus version (0.92 at the moment), please let me know. I would like to compile it myself

Kind regards,
Fre vs Alpha

Basically I'm a lazy-ass (like all programmers )

I'm also in two minds about releasing the code that generates the .wlf file. I could just release the object file, but that'd mean I'd have to update the rest of the source for each release, otherwise I could just release a diff could (with a little extra work sometimes) across at least a few versions. I'm sure Skito doesn't want me releasing the wlf file source, at least, not yet.

I'll be the first to admit I don't really know much about this side of things but surely it defies the point of having a secure mame to use for MARP if you just give out the source code. What are the benefits of 'compiling it yourself'?

...or am I missing the point here

DRN wrote:I'll be the first to admit I don't really know much about this side of things but surely it defies the point of having a secure mame to use for MARP if you just give out the source code. What are the benefits of 'compiling it yourself'?

Some (good?) reasons to distribute the source:

1 - Learning C
2 - Performance [speed]
3 - See what you guys are doing
4 - Edit and possibly even hack the code
5 - To be in terms with the license (referring to http://www.mame.net: If you use portions of the MAME source code in your program, however, you must make the full source code freely available as well.)

I’m aware that you MARP guys are not happy about distributing your secured MAME. And the first four points are not really persuasive. Maybe the 5th point is, but it’s not ‘that’ important for me, so I rest my case here.

Kind regards,
Fre vs Alpha

Alpha wrote:4 - Edit and possibly even hack the code

That's a good reason not to.

I would hardly call it a "secure" version - there is no encryption of any kind anymore (please all give thanks to Mr Corlett for that).

There should also be a few older source releases there... http://wolfmame.marpirc.net/wolf88src.diff is the most recent.

Haze should be able to fill in on this one. He is the current Mame coordinator, and is a regular in here, so lets hear what he has to say about it ?

Stig

mahlemiut wrote:

Alpha wrote:4 - Edit and possibly even hack the code

That's a good reason not to.

Editing does not have to be a bad thing. I'd like to make some changes to the source, so that pushing F3 during a record does not just reset the game, but also starts a new recording.

Alpha wrote:

mahlemiut wrote:

Alpha wrote:4 - Edit and possibly even hack the code

That's a good reason not to.

Editing does not have to be a bad thing. I'd like to make some changes to the source, so that pushing F3 during a record does not just reset the game, but also starts a new recording.

There are also lots of ways of editing the source that enable you to cheat and make legitimate looking inps. Just use regular MAME source and conduct experiments using that, that's what I do . Otherwise what's the point of Wolfmame?

Submitting with regular MAME is still allowed on MARP but Wolfmame inps are given more respect.

5 - To be in terms with the license (referring to http://www.mame.net: If you use portions of the MAME source code in your program, however, you must make the full source code freely available as well.)

I think this is the real argument here and I'm giving that one a wide berth .

Alpha wrote:

mahlemiut wrote:

Alpha wrote:4 - Edit and possibly even hack the code

That's a good reason not to.

Editing does not have to be a bad thing. I'd like to make some changes to the source, so that pushing F3 during a record does not just reset the game, but also starts a new recording.

so why don't you submit a patch for that F3 thing, that would be cool for everyone to use, where's the source for it? on your site i hope, lol.

I'm willing to turn a blind eye to the source violation as the reasons for it are understandable, however I grant this under the condition that the build is not advertised for use outside of MARP. The only thing I find annoying about the wolf inps is that they're useless for debugging asI can't play them back in a regular build.

5 - To be in terms with the license (referring to http://www.mame.net: If you use portions of the MAME source code in your program, however, you must make the full source code freely available as well.)

yeah, this is the issue. I have always had issues with clauses like this in development agreements.

It doesn't really mean what it literally seems to mean....otherwise almost all commercial software would have to be open source. Lots of commercial applications use various linux open source code in their projects.

it just requires the developer using the open source to be a little more organized and creative in how they make their builds....where you can easily separate all your "new" stuff and not release that...but the "full open source" include all but some "new" aspects.

ie. many earlier game engines are available as free open source now...but with the above type of clause.

The real result of that type of clause is that the game itself ends up being freeware....no commercial aspect to it.

The full open source of any games made using these open source game engines is often not available....and few seem to care....including those who released the open source of the engine.

As long as you can't use it for commercial gain they don't care.

In the case of MAME it's a little diffferent...cuz in this case you aren't even releasing a separate/new game...but just a rehash of an existing application with additional features added.

I don't think the source of the additional features needs to be released...as you have full access to the full source of what the actual MAME engine(s) is.

Now if in your build you added changes to the actual emulated game CPUs etc., then I do think the above clause covers that and you would be obliged to release the source of that type of change....cuz that is a change to MAME you are doing...not just some auxiliary module type thing that adds additional features.

That's my take on it.

Haze wrote:The only thing I find annoying about the wolf inps is that they're useless for debugging asI can't play them back in a regular build.

But this is just a matter of writing a converter, right?
(if Barry hasn't written one already...)

MJS wrote:But this is just a matter of writing a converter, right?
(if Barry hasn't written one already...)

Eh? What? Someone say something?

Of course, converting the inps would still have them compatible to MAME Plus, although that being said, most do work in both MAME and MAME Plus.

Haze wrote:I'm willing to turn a blind eye to the source violation as the reasons for it are understandable

Can I quote that
...anyway, gamer is a gamer

(...BBH..same time, same place, same story! Sherlock!)