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60 years ago, many of yours fathers, grand-fathers, uncles, cousins, friends died and fought for liberate my country.

Thank you.

I will never forget.

God bless them.

Yes. And they reserve our respect.

But lets not forget about the Russians who also fought the same battle. The same battle against Nazi Germany. A common enemy. The same Russians who basically won the war a year before at Kursk . The same Russian Army that fought 80% of the German Army,whilst the other 20% fought the 'Allies' at Normandy.

Lets not forget the true 'liberators' of Europe. Why don't we hear so much about their ceremonies etc...?

They gave more sacrifice,and thus deserve our thanks. Thats right. Those nasty-going-to-invade-our-world-soon-Commie-scum.

But now we know who the real 'Invaders' are. The only state with a military presence in over a hundred Countries....and it ain't the 'Commies'.

As said before...History is written by the victors. Remember that.


Cheers,

AL


p.s http://www.medialens.org/

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AL wrote: As said before...History is written by the victors. Remember that.

I fully agree.

well put al. i'm sure x meant all the allies, brits, etc. Russian casualties far outnumbered any country i believe, they deserve the most praise... anyways i just want to say i'm not proud to be american. and not just because bush is a butt head now, though i am glad americans at least try to help other countries even though it's to use obese military force to do it. Maybe our next president will do that with out the military...

Alex wrote:Lets not forget the true 'liberators' of Europe.

I'll ignore the rest of this, but the monumental irony of that particular statement simply can't pass without comment.

Perhaps some of our members from Poland or some other former Iron Curtain countries can testify for us as to how "liberated" eastern Europe was during the 40-45 years following World War II.

Alex wrote:As said before...History is written by the victors.

But anybody can write comedy.

The russians were not the good guys.. far from it. If they liberated Europe? well, it depends how you look at it. They certanly didn't do it officially You can say that they took care of a lot of Germans and indirectly ended the war.. sort of

What about the "good guys" then? Officially they liberated Europe, but they had their reasons. What is not often written in the history books (at least not in the US versions of them ) is that America had a lot of economical interests in Europe. That is one of the main reasons why general George C. Marshall came up with his "Marshall plan"
Stalin did of course decline the help from America. That was not so good for the east europe countries... but it made him more popular in some way It looks nice with a big country that helps you out.. and it is! My point is that America had their own interests by doing so. Not for charity so to speak.

Anyway, my point is that you can't really say that Russia liberated Europa... The communist regime at the time was brutal, and they probably had their own reasons for world dominance. On the other hand.. America was not so good as they officially clamied then... and they still aren't

Note:Let's not make this into a "cold war" hate discussion. I mean Communism vs Capitalsim. Those discussions never work out so well I have left my own personal opinion out of this post, except that I don't symphatise with any of the above mentioned ideologies

John, what I meant was that by engaging most of the German army,and defeating them, the Russian army played their part in liberating Europe. And I don't mean eastern Europe, but western Europe. ( The free Europe we keep hearing about )

Without their contribution , the allied assault would've been crushed. No beach-head,no nothing.

Ok, the Russians imposed their Communist rule over eastern Europe, but they also allowed the allies to bring 'freedom' to the other side of Europe.

Without them , all of Europe would have been under Nazi Germany rule. The lesser of two evils springs to mind.

Either way, knowing America's track record , if the Nazi's had won , it's a good bet that they'd have nuked Germany, and declared victory.

Then again, a lot of business interests would be nullified......

Blah...politics.


Cheers,

AL

http://www.medialens.org/

Keep yourself informed

Let us not forget pearl harbor.
The Japanese were very hurtful in the pacific.
.
Mussolini in Italy
Lynched by his own people.
.
I admire the strength of Germany.
THey were in Africa , that second world war.

tar wrote:Let us not forget pearl harbor.
The Japanese were very hurtful in the pacific.

..and let's not forget Nagazaki and Hiroshima.

tar wrote: Mussolini in Italy
Lynched by his own people.

He deserved it

tar wrote: I admire the strength of Germany.

Me too.

tar wrote: THey were in Africa , that second world war.

Well, they were all over the world