"Preload" uploads

[The TJT]

I've been watching some Preload's inps recently. I have very strong reasons to suspect that he is using autofire, rlh etc... This only applys to many sporting games he has been submitting at. Before going into details this time, I will let preload to defense himself here.

I have few questions:

What kind of controls you use for running and pushing jump/throw?
How you use these controls for running?...how many fingers on 1 button etc.
Every game same controls or different for different events?
Do you play alone?...no friend helping
Have you enabled cheats when recording?...rlh
How fast computer you have?
Have you played these games at arcade?

Controls for Track&Field +clones
100m?
Javelin?
110m?
Highjump?

Controls for fieldday +clones
Especially softball throw.

Controls for Konami88?

Other games I have not playbacked.

Thank you for your reply.

TJT
T&F world record holder
100m 7:47(arcade)

[Chad]

He's been warned :) and his button signatures show less detectable signs of autofire, the recent 88games http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0 recordings looks fine at least with tools. Others have questionable signatures, haven't gone through them meticulously because preload appears to be on the mend. if you give me links i'll check individual recordings.

[AL]

" TJT
T&F world record holder
100m 7:47(arcade) "

You sound like an American

As for 'Preload' , haven't watched any of his/hers recordings . But probably will do now-ish/soon/tomorrow/whenever.....

Cheers ,

AL ( retired )

[The TJT]

Chad,
I'm waiting hes answer before saying anything. But yes, konami88 looks least suspicius inp. He should have told sooner to use more secure mame vers imho.

Al,
I'm American...in heart, hahaha.
Well, have to put somekind of sig to have little weight on my words. Thinking about it, that sig sounds very cool, errr
Man, don't retire yet. If all marpers start retiring so early, we must cut pensions. lol

[preload]

I've been watching some Preload's inps recently. I have very strong reasons to suspect that he is using autofire, rlh etc... This only applys to many sporting games he has been submitting at. Before going into details this time, I will let preload to defense himself here.

I'm sorry for my late reply but I read sometimes this forum.
I reply only for education, and I'm not fell accused.
I think that the problem is your leadership in this games, you are angry because I've beat your records. I'm sorry for you!
I'm watching your records and so do I could have some suspects. You know that in this manner everybody could be suspected and later accused.

Your suspects are based about what?
Is for the signature, like tell Chad? Or wath?
Many of my signatures are "AAA" because I want not to spend many time for insert "PRE". Everybody can know that the record is mine even if there isn't "PRE" but there is "AAA" or "CCC" or "DDD" etc....

I know that my records are regulars.
And now I can reply to your questions and I hope that you'll make the same thing

What kind of controls you use for running and pushing jump/throw?

I use a joy pad (logitech wingman action), the analogical stick for running and the button for jump/throw

How you use these controls for running?...how many fingers on 1 button etc.

analogical stick. Right and left

Every game same controls or different for different events?

the same controls for every events

Do you play alone?...no friend helping

I'm alone

Have you enabled cheats when recording?...rlh

no

How fast computer you have?

pIII 800 mhz, but I'm not sure beacause now I'm a not in front of my pc

Have you played these games at arcade?

I spent many time at the arcade during my school

Controls for Track&Field +clones
100m?

left/right for run (analogical stick)

Javelin?

left/right for run (analogical stick) and button to throw

110m?

left/right for run (analogical stick) and button to jump

Highjump?

left/right for run (analogical stick) and button to jump

Controls for fieldday +clones
Especially softball throw.

left/right for run (analogical stick) and button to throw

Controls for Konami88?

left/right for run (analogical stick) and button to jump/throw

Are you satisfied?
Sorry for my bad english...

I'm waiting your reply

preload

[The TJT]

Oh, I'm not angry because you break some of my records.
I could allways better mine.
Originally I just checked your Trackfld recording, (because of Chad comments at one of your recordings. so I'm not completely alone there)...then looked another..and more...

I reply tomorrow, or later in greater detail my "findings". Now I don't have time, need sleep -early wake up tomorrow, unfortunately

Ciao

[mahlemiut]

Have you enabled cheats when recording?...rlh

no

Bullocks.

[LN2]

preload, when setting what a new top score for a very popular game like track-n-field, it's pretty important IMHO to enter your initials each time you play. "AAA" is something that will draw suspicion from others. I don't like it to the point that I think any replay files that don't enter any initials at the end or just enter "AAA" shouldn't be accepted.

A player that plays these games for hours on end can take the 5-10 seconds to enter their initials each time they play.

I am not saying I'm suspicious of your inps. I'm just pointing out that "AAA" doesn't look good. Other inps I have seen where no initials in the final table after their game is over are entered are even more suspicious. They give the impression of an inp found somewhere online, then hacked to just remove more and more off the end of it until the initials entered by the real player aren't entered...then claiming that gameplay is their own.

I have seen even world record inps where this happens. I can't see any reason why someone getting such a fantastic score wouldn't bother entering their initials, whatever those might be...could be nickname etc. and not real name initials...but something other than "AAA" or nothing.

[Weehawk]

He's been warned and his button signatures show less detectable signs of autofire.....Others have questionable signatures...

Is for the signature, like tell Chad? Or wath?
Many of my signatures are "AAA" because.....

Of course Chad meant a different kind of "signature" altogether.

Have you enabled cheats when recording?...rlh

no

Bullocks.

Wouldn't an analysis of the input stream pretty easily show whether rlh was used or not?

I don't like it to the point that I think any replay files that don't enter any initials at the end or just enter "AAA" shouldn't be accepted.

I think I submitted a few inps at MARP before I realized anyone even looked at that. Even now, while I don't mind putting my initials in after playing a "keeper", for those games that require initial at the start of the game I might not bother. If someone wishes not to accept it because of that, they don't have to.

And for preload:

Use alphamame or wolfmame always, so your recordings will be questioned less. Because we don't block alphamame anymore there have been a few seedy recordings (some detectable as seedy by the inp analyzer) submited with regular mame and we've dqued a few but haven't talked to all the seedies yet. We RARely question (and better yet rarely need to question) recordings made with alphamame and tgmame. So if you want to show marp pride, use alphamame or wolfmame

You ought to use that as your sig, Chad.

[LN2]

Wouldn't an analysis of the input stream pretty easily show whether rlh was used or not?

Yes, that's one of the 'signatures' referred to above. However, that is simply an input use....different and much easier to conclusively detect than someone using an input device that has an autofire feature on it...which is what was mentioned above. ...to examine the inp and try and find a 'signature' that would indicate that an autofire feature on a device was used. That's separate from the rlh cheat. A device with a variable autofire dial on it would be almost impossible to detect...especially if you press some run buttons manually during the race to throw in an "odd" frame here and there.

I think I submitted a few inps at MARP before I realized anyone even looked at that. Even now, while I don't mind putting my initials in after playing a "keeper", for those games that require initial at the start of the game I might not bother. If someone wishes not to accept it because of that, they don't have to.

True...but I was mainly referring to those where you enter it at the end...not the beginning...even then for a game like T-n-F, it's pretty trivial and fast to enter your initials. Why can't a player take a few seconds to do that knowing they are playing the game at a high enough skill level where if they do their best or close to their best in every event they have a chance at the top score? It's easy to see how some might be suspicious of that.

If someone was only able to get 85k and had "AAA" then it's understandable more than when someone is submitting a truly elite score.

In this case preload's scores are good, but certainly not up in the elite with TJT's scores so I don't question "AAA" at all and if the rlh cheat wasn't used fine...so I'm not sure why this thread was started. I was assuming preload had submitted an inp that was very close to or beat TJT's scores....but I don't see any. No URLs were given either to assist and focus this discussion. Was there an inp preload has removed? 88-89k is a good score....but certainly far shy of those scoring 90+k. Those are the recent inps I see he has submitted. Good and solid runs..but not elite enough to really question one way or the other IMHO.

[Weehawk]

A device with a variable autofire dial on it would be almost impossible to detect...especially if you press some run buttons manually during the race to throw in an "odd" frame here and there.

Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this....

Seriously though, even if it was variable, I would think it would have sections where the frequency of presses of a given button might be higher than physically possible playing legitimately.

[Novice]

DEFCON=20

I hate complaining loser(s).
but his act is really fun.
good luck all.

[Weehawk]

DEFCON=20

Complaining loser is a lot of fun.

Which loser?

[LN2]

Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this....

Nope, it's just been discussed a lot by others in the past.

Seriously though, even if it was variable, I would think it would have sections where the frequency of presses of a given button might be higher than physically possible playing legitimately.

Well, it depends on how you define legitimate.
The arcade game has only 2 run buttons and 1 jump button.

I think several of the top scores here are using a technique where multiple buttons are assigned for running and a cascade type motion used...like how you drum your fingers on 1 hand on your desk....now imagine setting up your keyboard buttons to accomodate that type of motion....or something similar to running a finger or two down a set of piano keys.

Technically versus the arcade game those methods aren't legitimate but are allowed in playing these games in MAME cuz there is little to nothing anyone could do about it. They are legitimate for MAME.

These methods allow for running faster than you could with the arcade game. Many of the highest arcade scores are set using assistance like a pencil or comb etc. also....are those legitimate? In a tournament setting certainly not unless that tournament said anything goes. In that case you could build a small engine that would tap the 2 run buttons alternately for you with a little variable resistor to adjust the speed of it until you maxed the efficiency. That's essentially an auto-fire type device. Examining the replay file in MAME actually can detect that type of steady rhythm that's hitting almost every single frame. That's something a human can't do over several seconds at 30 taps of each button perfectly alternating per second.

Novice, several others are the ones "complaining" recently. I'm just participating and adding to the discussion is all. I think whatever they are doing for T-n-F as long as no autofire crap used is 100% fine. assign 5 keys to left-run and 5 to the right-run button and that allows you to run faster...so be it as long as you are using your hands and fingers on the keys/buttons only. You always think I am against everything. If you actually got your closed mind out of your butt for once you might actually notice I fight for the rights of gamers to do this or that tons more than I do to prevent them doing certain things. You choose to ignore all of that and stay stuck up on 1 or 2 discussions I have had that were against one of your replays in the past. Grow up already. Get past it.

In general, as long as there is still a level of competition for the game where a more skilled player can score higher than a lesser skilled player then I'm for any technique used. It's only when some technique allows for a lesser skilled player to beat higher or equally skilled players that I'm against the technique.

Your Rod Land score...if all it takes is reaching that certain score prior to the last boss...then that's fine by me...go for it. However, the fact you share the secret only in Japanese then get on John's case when he asks a simple question is disrespectful toward MARP as well as being poor gamesmanship The language of MARP is English. If you chose to not post your descriptions on English you have no right to get on someone's case just because they ask for the English translation.

I never judged your Rod land inp...yet you ASS-U-ME-D I did.

[Chad]

ok, this thread is about preload only isn't it? and it appears s/he IS using the RLH cheat which my tools didn't check for, barry wrote something that does and he's most defineilty using it. I guess when autofire wasn't working to thwart my tools he used something else to run faster than he could with his fingers (as in the RLH cheat).

preload your english is good but you should know you have to play with mame legitimately to submit recordings here. And LN2 (rick) is right about my definition of "signature" you had autofire "signatures" in your recordings, they now are replaced by RLH "signatures" and thus we will only accept recordings that playback correctlywith out nvrams and that ar recorded with out any cheats.