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The recent thread on the US Games had sparked a (fairly quick) little discussion on #marp recently. The notion of finding a point where an easy game can be considered too easy ended up the focal point of the conversation.

The discussion at #marp ended up with a suggestion of archiving any game where the number of players able to max out the score goes beyond a certain threshold. The initial suggestion was a figure of 5.

By example, take the Red Dog Poker game out of US Games v25.4x. 12 people have played this game, 12 people have maxed out the score. This is an easy 100 points. This sub-game should be archived.

Similarly usg32-st (Sex Trivia) has 7 people having maxed out the score.

Of the other US Games sub-games, usg185-04 (Craps), usg185-07 (Slots), usg252-04 (Craps) and most of the trivia games have multiple people having maxed out the scores. All have only two or three people having maxed the scores out.

The chances of maxing out the time-based trivia games in the US Games series is fairly long, but the game play to achieve this is very rudimentary - hit the keys as the timer starts & hope you hit the right one. It's not skill that maxes out these. I would like to see these games archived because there appears to be no skill involved in getting the maximum score. The #marp discussion would suggest they are archived as soon as 5 people reach the maximum.

To counter this, you have games such as Circus Charlie (cirucsc) and Lode Runner (ldrun) where numerous people have maxed out the scores but the scores are not that trivial to achieve. As with any half-decent game that can be maxed out, it takes some dedication.

Comments?

URLs:
Games V25.4X [Red Dog Poker]: http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
Super Duper Casino (California V3.2) [Sexual Trivia]: http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
All of the US Games series: http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
Circus Charlie: http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
Lode Runner: http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

For lode runner, I had propose a long time ago to limit the games to the 24 original levels (after it loops : no interest) and the 30 originals for ldrun2 ldrun3 & ldrun4 --- with eventually a bonus for lifes left when finished (I'm thinking about ldrun3 where the highest score is a non finished leeching game when 2nd place is 2 lops 1/2)

There must be some formal rule about when a game is archived. Certainly broken games must be archived. I think having one person decide that a game is 'too easy' is a bit subjective. Someone could spend a great deal of time finding a technique that makes the game easy to complete. Should they be penalized for their hard work? Also, what is easy for one player may not be so easy for another.

One could archive a game once 5-10 players max out the score. Another idea would be that if say X players max out a score, then they only get (100/X) leader board points each. The people that don't max out the score get less points than that based on the way marp scoring works now.

I worry about a scenario where 5 players max out the score on Xevious or Pacman. It is certainly quite possible that within the next few years this happens. While both games aren't that hard, I would strongly disagree with archiving such classics. If all 5 players were only awarded 20 points each for their effort, this might be a good compromise to archiving it.

I agree with zlk's line of reasoning. I think that:
A) Only games that are not working or non-scoreable should be archieved

B) Games that have more than X (i.e. 5) people with 100 points, should score players as (100/Number of top scores) instead of 100. And, any lower scores will be reduced to less than (100/Number of Top scores).

Additionally I think that games that reset the counter to zero (when 999999 is reached), should not be affected, IF players continue playing and calculate their actual score for MARP based on 1000000 + actual score (or whatever!).

Regards,
Kranser.

well, certainly no one is suggesting that Lode Runner or Circus Charlie be archived. i don't know if we need a threshold because games themselves are enough evidence of whether they should be archived or not. for instance, if you played Rotary Fighter you had to have a good idea that it would be archived sooner or later, it was simply too easy. i don't know if a rule here wouldhelp anything--games are still going ot be looked at on a case by case basis.

I have no idea about Lode runner, but I can speak for Circus charlie.

Just because the game is maxed out does not mean it is easy.. It took me like hundreds of hours (arcade practice and mame practice during deca 2002) to max out the game.

I think that is quite different from playing a game of bowling (archived already) and try like 10 minutes, max out the score and get 100 points.

THOSE games should be archived (if any). TOO easy (Case to case basis is needed to decide in my opinion)

If a poker/trivia game is maxed out in a few tries it is too easy and should be archived, but if you play it for days using hundreds of hours to sort out the questions etc, there is no reason to call the game easy and archive it.

As I have no idea about the difficulty on the trivia/usg games etc I can´t judge if they should be archived or not. My opinion is just in general.

Yeah , case to case , not that MARP should come to that ?

These stupid easy games are a problem , but no-one , not even five people should have the right to say " That Game is TOO Easy ! " , or else there will be a line that will take forever to draw , and in the meantime a load of c***ts trying to cross it .

Or something like that.....

Cheers ,

AL

Hmm...MARP Knight eh ?

Go on Super Don

AL