2020bbh

JoustGod · Post by **JoustGod** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:31 pm

I hate to be the one to bring this up. However, Chad's (Skito) description for his submission on this game caught my eye. 27 times being hit by a pitch. I remember this game from an earlier MARP tourney. I also remember using the technique of getting hit by a pitch in order to maximize points/runs. While it wasn't a topic of discussion as far as banning a technique at that time, I do find it interesting in light of the recent Outrun thread. Admittedly, I haven't gone to look at all other .inps for this and 2020bb. I do notice a trend to state the number of HBP (hit by pitch in baseball acronym) in the description of almost every one of the submitted games. Perhaps this way of play should be looked at. A suggestion is to set a limit of HBP to only 2 or 3 (if any!). Reason being is that an average baseball game may have only 1 or 2 such incidents at any given time. Most often it doesn't even occur. If the Outrun discussion and results is to have any merit, then this title should be played "correctly" also. Maybe allowing a penalty of some sort for excessive HBP would be the solution. Thoughts on this?

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:14 pm

already been brought up by me (and it's me that has listed the hbp count) but this post(poll) proves nobody really minds it so i guess that's the way we'll play... sad but true.

viewtopic.php?t=9652

I've got another offering to come with much less mistakes and more hpbs :) at least i'm finally getting shutouts on the defensive side.

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

JoustGod · Post by **JoustGod** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:42 pm

Hmmm...very interesting series of replies. I do remember something about this being addressed. I only bring this up because it should be reviewed so that MARP doesn't look so hypocritcal on the issue of "correct" play or "how the programmers intended gameplay" type of discussions. Take another look before you submit more .inps for this. Just trying to save you time.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:49 pm

i'd be happy to play the human baseball way but why when i proly can't get such a high score that way. and it's not wasting time if it got one more person on the side that hpbs are lame :)

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:28 am

I stand by comments in the other thread

in other words

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CARES!

Mr. Kelly R. Flewin · Post by **Mr. Kelly R. Flewin** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:39 am

BBH wrote:I stand by comments in the other thread

in other words

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CARES!

SSHHH! Barthax might be reading this and start up another ...[polite words intended] poll.. [No offense Barthax, I respect you as a player... but frankly I think your poll idea for Basketball games it absolutely retarded.... it should never have existed... but... you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that and say no more]

Kelly

Skyline · Post by **Skyline** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:32 am

JoustGod wrote:A suggestion is to set a limit of HBP to only 2 or 3 (if any!). Reason being is that an average baseball game may have only 1 or 2 such incidents at any given time.

Yes, but this is a video game. Real outfielders don't walk like they have wire hangers up their asses, yet they do in Vs. BaseBall.

Most often it doesn't even occur.

Hey...blame SNK for coding the game that way. In Baseball Stars 2 you get a sizeable amount of HBPs against Korea...and let's not get into the other JP games like The Koukouyakyuh. >_<;

JoustGod · Post by **JoustGod** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:48 am

Sorry if this subject bothers some of you. But, at the heart of this all happens to be MARP integrity. After all the bitching and moaning over Outrun, I happen to think that this merits consideration. If the basis of the poll that banned the Outrun trick was to keep a game in line with the sport it was depicting, then the incredibly high number of HBPs on this particular duo of titles is equally out of line with the Outrun trick. Especially since an HBP in 2020bb/h is not very hard to achieve.

I say MARP integrity because if you let this slide after someone brings it up, then it begins to have the look of hypocrisy thus rendering any opinion of this type useless in the future. In other words, re-assess this so there at least appears to be some type of uniformity concerning games that are video equivalents to real-life sports. I'm afraid I'm just as guilty about letting things slide during the first 2020bb poll. However, in light of the great Outrun debate, we need to take a closer look to pull things together for the sake of consistency. If this is too much for anyone to bother with and you simply could care less about a silly baseball videogame, then fine. No problem. But at least give better and more valid responses in the future to this subject if you are to be taken seriously as a member of MARP.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:08 am

These are arcade games, not simulators. They are meant to be fun games to play, first and foremost. Realism comes second. You wouldn't get players leaning into pitches in real baseball (I hope

). 'Cause it hurts. Please don't go basing anything on real baseball, or whatever sport it is. These are still different.

Scrum Try is the most realistic rugby arcade game, simply because it's about the only one (at least that I know of).

JoustGod · Post by **JoustGod** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:12 am

Then what was everyone so upset with for Outrun? My point seems to be missed.

Barthax · Post by **Barthax** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:55 am

Kelly, no offense taken, but I think you should get your facts straight first. The only poll I've started since I've been here (that I recall) is whether or not to use built-in scoring systems where available after a full discussion on a blanket scoring system for all games... I've started other discussions, sure... but not polls. Retardation seems to be on the other foot.

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:11 pm

JoustGod wrote:Then what was everyone so upset with for Outrun? My point seems to be missed.

The only one upset by all the Outrun crap was Novice.

BTW that Outrun offroad trick is still allowed. The poll only got like 60-63% of votes to ban it which isn't enough.

Even with that poll turn out in Novice's favor he was and still is very pissed at me in particular.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:21 pm

I don't see much similarity between the OutRun debate and this. the OutRun trick people were against because they weren't that well-educated about what it was exactly. It's not a glitch, it's a legitimate "hidden" trick that is in every game with the OutRun name. People were against it because they thought the trick makes it too easy to finish but didn't realize that it actually takes more skill to pull off than it appears. (yes, I'm actually on Hisa's side on this) It wasn't because driving off the road is something that goes against the "sport" of driving... okay maybe a couple people were upset over that, but it was because they didn't want to bother with using the trick to finish the game that way.

2020bb is probably just a case of poor computer AI. But why should we be forced to attempt to play the game like "real baseball"? Come on, just look at the name. You don't see land mines and big-breasted female players jumping 100 feet into the air to catch fly balls in regular baseball (but damn, I wish). Anything goes! Remember that HBP's can actually damage your players and force you to use the money you get from that on upgrades. But if you want to ban getting hit by those, you'll have to ban jumping in those zones that send you high into the air, and you'll have to ban using the money to upgrade the power of your players... remember, you can't do that in real baseball.

JoustGod · Post by **JoustGod** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:46 pm

Much better. Thank you for your higher level of thought composition, Matt.

You have made a very good point and I can agree with you on it since you stated it the way you did. I suppose I remember at least a couple of people dismayed during the Outrun thread over the lack of "playing the game as intended". That is what prompted me to bring this up. However, with the introduction of big-breasted females that leap tall buildings in a single bound, I have a hard time believing the validity of "realism" in 2020bb.

Would be interesting to see that on ESPNHD, tho...lol.

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:07 am

I did vote no to the outrun trick just because It makes the game into something else. I think the game is easier using that trick, but that was not my point though.. and belive me I have experience of that game

Another reason was also that there is no way you can get those scores without using the trick. It felt kind of 'unfair' to those who wanted to beat a highscore, beeing forced to use a trick if they wanted to beat the firstplace. That´s why I posted the link on the board when I did the poll so everyone could understand what was going on etc.

Now this is past issue etc, etc, but I just thought I should explain my point of view.

If we just could get that new section on marp that I have been talking about, everything will be solved.. but as I have said before, it is up to the editors and Chris. And it seems like no one of those care.

QRS