forums.marpirc.net

In response to Tommi's assertion that there are a lack of MARPers reacting to Hisa. I, for one, tend to just roll my eyes at the exchanges that go on here in regards to the great info supplyer. I'm sure I'm not alone on this. My reasoning is fairly simple why I don't chime in with comments of my own. After observing Hisa's approach to socializing it becomes crystal clear that he suffers from a lack of social skills and/or really likes to get under people's skin. I think it's a combination of both. From where I stand, he really sinks his teeth into you once you've let it be known that it bothers you. Reminds me a bit of how animals can detect certain human emotions and will act accordingly. Try to remember that his words are only that...words.

Yes, he has a propensity to spew foul language on this board. However, his English language skills are barely passible thus limiting his expressions severely. In short, he makes himself look poorly in the eyes of others when he is in constant pursuit of agitating whomever strikes his fancy...namely those who give into his immature manner in which he chooses to communicate with others.

He has a great deal to contribute to MARP. That is a shame as his contributions often seem muddled amidst his ongoing barrage of insults. Quite a shame.

I'm in agreement with Barry and Alex. There are a lot worse out there. Believe me. I've been around 44 years with nearly half of those years spent in a business where poor social behavior is the norm. You either learn to find a way to recognize and deal with it or let a person such as this drive you crazy which he is obviously doing to some. It ain't worth it!

Minor heated exchanges are expected when humans communicate. But, this is nothing short of a simple case of childish behavior. Don't sink to his level. He'll never admit it in a million years, but that's what trips his trigger/ gets him off/ whatever. I know it's not easy when you're the one in his sights. But, believe me, ignoring him when it begins to get heated is the lesser of the two evils in this case. Know when to walk away. Ignoring him would probably get under his skin more than you'll ever know. If you decide to respond to him, just know that his behavior is boring and predictable. There will be the schoolboy pointing and shouting routine. Just let him stand there and make a spectacle of himself. The rest of us know where you that are under attack stand in regards to your stature at MARP. Don't sweat it. I would rather have Hisa engage in constructive dialogue here rather than this load of garbage. I know he can do it. He's shown it before.

Just my inflated two cents worth...for what it's worth.

Novice wrote:If it is so easy,then he had better upload replay which beat 2.27M.
this act is enough to shut up me.
WHY DID HE WROTE BILLIONS OF WORTHLESS EXCUSE ??
simply he can not so he did not. not more than.

I hate a rude liar like him.

It's so so funny ou call me rude. You are by far the most rude person I know. Someone that is rude shows no respect toward others...which is exactly what you do.

I did have a URL for an inp I made. However, it's in MacMAME cuz all I have is a Mac to play the game on.

I pointed this out and you STILL called me various things like you always do. For the first one, I even had screenshots since you couldn't view the replay file. You of course said my screenshot was faked.

Nothing I did back then to try and satisfy you would actually end up satisfying you. That's your problem. That's not an excuse. Plus as I stated, why should I waste time playing it to even get a higher score cheating at the game? Why should I do that to only have you continue to call me all the things you have been calling me for an entire year now? I'd bet even if I could get on a friend's PC for a day to make a pc-mame based inp even in wolfmame you would still accuse me of cheating etc.

Barry, you can't just ignore him...cuz his constant putdowns of me etc. actually have others questioning my gaming integrity and think I might be cheating just because of Novice's comments and how they think he is some kind of god here cuz he provides info he learned elsewhere.

So his comments aren't benign. They have damaged me and brainwashed others to a degree and made a reputation for me that is totally based on Novice's comments. That's going outside the scope of it just being a post in a forum you could ignore.

As said above, the fact you have seen worse elsewhere doesn't justify novice's behavior HERE.

Odds are those other forums you have seen worse members at are likely forums I and many others here would choose to not even participate at because of that behavior.

Moderators would have given warnings on many occasions to his posts and in many cases deleted his post.

MARP isn't like that...yet 1 member, Hisa/Novice, is allowed to bring down all of MARP(which is essentially what his behavior is doing). If you had many members that acted like he does then fine...then you could say that's how MARP has decided to be. Other forums/sites have decided to be that way. MARP hasn't....based on rule #1 of MARP.

If you think that's how MARP is then let's get rid of Rule #1 of MARP...which is the most important rule of all the rules of MARP IMHO. It's a pointless rule to even state unless MARP actually wants that to be the case.

MARP is a nice community except for Novice.

Rules mean absolutely nothing unless there is some consequence to breaking the rules...especially when they are totally disrespected and broken over and over and over again as Novice has done.

Perhaps you can personally ignore it Barry, but can MARP? As stated above most forums would have long banned someone that behaves the way novice does.

There's nothing like someone to claims they do something, but never does it anyway. You never know, if you actually produce a 9.9 million Cameltry score, Hisa just might shut up. He could probably even get Tech-D to look at it for him or something.

I think this is not about cameltry or scoring at it. Board moderators own opinion of a game -should not affect policies here.

This is all about the way how Hisa treats other board members here.
If someone can or can not do 3 Million at cameltry is irrelevant.
---------------
The rules of Marp:

1. MARP is a self-regulating community. It is expected that all players will behave honorably as a part of this community, contributing not only to the leaderboard but to the discussions regarding the community as well. Everyone has a say at MARP, whether you're 1st on the leaderboard or 101st, and whether you've been at MARP for four years or for forty seconds. Therefore:

a) Maintain the rules of politeness and no swearing on the message board.
b) If you have a dispute with another MARPer, please contact them personally instead of flaming them publicly.
c) Be honest in your scoring and recording techniques.
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(No, Rick should not do 9,9million just because somebody don't believe hes screenshot or can't playback inp. Would you waste your time to learning to perfect some tricks that you don't want to learn. I'm not sure how long it would take to learn to execute those through wall spots, but I'm pretty sure it would not take long time for Rick. Nevertheless if it takes only 20 hours, that's too much of wasted time imo)

mahlemiut wrote:There's nothing like someone to claims they do something, but never does it anyway.

I agree.

You never know, if you actually produce a 9.9 million Cameltry score, Hisa just might shut up. He could probably even get Tech-D to look at it for him or something.

And Rick, maybe you could also show us how to get past the killscreen on Pac-Man, as you claimed you know how to do it. Just for the tips&tricks page.

diabolik wrote:And Rick, maybe you could also show us how to get past the killscreen on Pac-Man, as you claimed you know how to do it. Just for the tips&tricks page.

It's not my secret to give away. Plus, unlike Novice I hardly put down others calling them unskilled and ignorant because they don't know how to get past the split. It was discussed at TG and here briefly for a week several months ago and hasn't been discussed since.

Overall I regret even bringing it up since I won't betray this other person who happens to be a long time friend of mine giving away his method...at least not without his total approval to do so.

I leave it up to him...as I have for the past year(s)...although honestly I actually only totally put the pieces together in my head this past winter when I got into playing regular pac-man...after having the pieces in my head for 20 years.

I have not tried it in MAME...but likely should.

I also recently asked the guy who figured out how to get past the split if he had tried it in MAME or on various machines. He replied nope..that he had only done it on that 1 pac-man machine the arcade back then had...so at this point he or I would need to do it successfully on other machines with the official rom set to make sure that 1 machine he had perhaps wasn't some conversion kit etc. that might be different than a standard machine which might allow getting past the split.

Plus, getting past the split-screen in pac-man is quite significant and not comparable to cheating at a game.

So, even in this case it's not my claiming I can do something I might not even be able to do. I was a witness at the charity event 20 years ago where this player set a 12+ million score for pac-man on what seemed to be a standard pac-man machine....well, was a cocktail version...but standard boards I mean.

I have never attempted it myself...so have no idea if the pieces I finally put together in my head last winter are actually correct...but it all makes logical sense...and when I told my friend I had figured it out and explained it to him he had the oddest grin on his face...so that was proof that I had it right.

Even if I ever revealed it it would be through TG likely at a TG event...not an inp uploaded to MARP.

Well, I just played the game 6-7 hours in a row...Cameltry...Trying to master through the walls trick. It was very difficult at first, but with right sensitivity settings more easy. Yes, I see "Mori" is playing very good.
I played using spinner for normal play + keyboard going through walls. I imagine if I would have set sensitivity just right for spinner to go through walls, results would be even better, much better.
Now I got hang of basic shortcuts and several bumber leeching spots. But I need to use spinner if I want have consistency with getting into "sweet spot".
I can "penetrate into sweet spot" at many levels...ummm...atleast 4.
This inp I did only at level 2, because previously I messed finishing after second bumber leech. You need 3 leeching sessions for 10Million +use few shortcuts more.

You can basicly go anywhere through the wall. Penetration is very hard at round corners though. You need some speed to go through wall too.

Nevertheless, point is proven. You don't have to play 10 years for 9,9Million.
Hisas calculations for scoring/second are not right.
Bumber leeching has great amount of luck involved, if you stay in sweet spot -bumber throws you away very very often.

Even though there is skill involved at getting 10M, I think current Marp rules are better.

Thanks, TJT

I'm sure Hisa will say something along the lines of "still not 9.9 million, this proves nothing".

You need more time to leech on world 2, anyway.

Getting scores like this isn't always as easy as it seems. If it were, I'd have maxed out Pocket Fighter long ago.

(excuse the mood, it's the rugby result talking )

mahlemiut wrote:I'm sure Hisa will say something along the lines of "still not 9.9 million, this proves nothing".

No!
everything I requred was "Prove it by yourself" and he did.
It is enough. and I must bow down.
if you made this,then I have no reason to blame you at all.
you are the GREAT player,TJT.
Very sorry for my rudeness.

6-7hours to master it??
I wonder.

Novice wrote:you are the GREAT player,TJT.
Very sorry for my rudeness.

Wow, didn't quite expect that either.

mahlemiut wrote:You need more time to leech on world 2, anyway.

nah, the 2nd level of the course is the first bumper leech spot sure...but only the first..so maybe leech 1-1.5 million from there depending on how quickly you can warp into that wall area to then position it in the bumper so-called "sweet spot".

Exit it with about 20 seconds left and complete the level. Do a warp on the next couple to build your starting time back up to 99 seconds, then do it again...leeching at least 2-3 million in that case...given the more time. Plus the spot on that level is a little easier to get in since there is a larger and thicker wall to get your ball "on top of"..then can carefully get the ball into the sweet spot. You can stay here until almost out of time since you are close to the end of that level.

So after this leech your score will be around 5 million.
Now the level after that you have the level with a good warp move you can complete in 1 second...so quickly build up your time again.

Getting scores like this isn't always as easy as it seems.

I never said it was easy to get 9.9 million. I think it's easier than having a 730+k run playing the game by the rules though. It does require a few successful and fairly efficiently/quickly achieved warps so you have the time to leech.

However, that's it. Execute those 3-4 warps and you are set.

With the actual arcade system, it gets even easier...cuz with control conversion kits like the Arkanoid one Hisa talked about, you can set the sensitivity even higher than the 255 limit in MAME. The higher that sensitivity is the easier it is to warp.

TJT, would you say the time and skill required for your 3.3 million run required less or more skill than your 730+k runs playing the game following the rules of the game?

I say it's easily less skill overall required to do that. It took several nights of play to learn the courses and techniques for fairly efficient block breaking and avoiding the time penalty wall-blocks etc. while it only took me a couple hours to learn how to warp reasonably well.

Did you use the second chance lottery in that 3.3 million run? The 9.9 million run does. Novice's run did also where they stay in that first bumper leech spot on the 2nd level until the timer actually runs out...then win the lottery and the 20 seconds award with that and complete the level.

That gives them 20 seconds more of bumper leech time versus others that don't use the lottery. if they don't win that lottery then they just try over and over again until they do get that extra 20 seconds.

I was surprised by Hisa's comment also...but all I can do is provide a macmame inp that likely won't totally play back in sync.

Some cameltry inps I made in macmame actually stay in sync for a few levels before they lose sync.

I almost wonder if it just has that slight time-shift similar to the pac-man inp where if I did a similar addition of the header that Gaz did to my pac-man inp, perhaps that would allow my cameltry inps to be viewed in pc-mames.

Also, when I play the game, I am using frameskip 6 to have it play at 100% speed(with sound though) which likely makes warping just a little bit harder since skipping frames would reduce the level of control.

Anyway, TJT has proven my point easily enough.

The TJT wrote:Well, I just played the game 6-7 hours in a row...Cameltry...Trying to master through the walls trick. It was very difficult at first, but with right sensitivity settings more easy. Yes, I see "Mori" is playing very good.
Thanks, TJT

I agree with you. Make this trick isn't so easy and 'Mori' can be called the god of Camel Try. Yes, it make some kind of luck to enter and stay in sweet spot. But I think Hisa is right when he said 3.7M isn't the same thing as 9.9M because you must ban this luck in your play for make it. You must make the perfect play for it. In other side, I guess Hisa don't tell us all of the tricks for success of the 9.9M and its why he's so sure we don't success it easely. It must be some little tricks to known for enter in sweet spot and stay without be bumped out. And its what Hisa call skill and he's not wrong.

Francois, who want to make peace

Novice wrote:It is enough. and I must bow down.
if you made this,then I have no reason to blame you at all.
you are the GREAT player,TJT.
Very sorry for my rudeness.

The fair one is who can see his own mistakes. Congrats for that Hisa.

Francois

Novice wrote:

mahlemiut wrote:I'm sure Hisa will say something along the lines of "still not 9.9 million, this proves nothing".

No!
everything I requred was "Prove it by yourself" and he did.
It is enough. and I must bow down.
if you made this,then I have no reason to blame you at all.
you are the GREAT player,TJT.
Very sorry for my rudeness.

6-7hours to master it??
I wonder.

Very positive comment, thank you Hisa, maybe we can forget about fighting about this game now. People have different opinions, and I can see why you think this is one play of playing the game.
Yes! I did play it only about 7 hours...all in one session, huh! Before start of the session I couldn't warp even once. Took about 2 hours of that 7 hour time to get sensitivity right and learn how to do it somewhat controlled manner. Took some time to get familiar with out-of-the-playing-arena too...where to go etc.
Yes, I think it is not so easy after all.
So I'm not a bad player anymore, good, I never thought so.

Barry, this inp shows enough not having to make more...you see how I use warp more levels than only at level 2, you can see that I could do more bumber leeching at later levels. Some of the sweet spots are not so easy to get into at later levels though, but neither is level 2 spot. As I said, I feel you need skill, but luck too to make 9,9, mainly because you get thrown out of leech session without reason, plus getting into sweet spot at later levels is somewhat based on luck too, atleast with keyboard
.
I can not get much more time for level 2, I shortcutted("warp")at level 1 already finishing it in 38 seconds. But you should see that I can do more with little practice at later levels. Should be able to do 6M with these skills(2 bumber leeching sessions), but must practice for more higher points... That is not going to happen though, I simply don't have ambition to do so now.

Rick, this shows that you could have done it too.
If it's more easy than 730K...I can not say, but look at the time I played. I had the skills to play the game before I started though.
I made about 3 million or over at one bumber session in level 2, finishing with 20 seconds left. Did not use lottery, no need to...I had soon 99 seconds again...But I did not want to risk finishing game with other bumber session. I was damn tired and just wanted to finish the game(with few shortcuts) to show that I can do this.

Actually it was quite fun to learn this, but frustrating too... I think marp rules for cameltry are ok now. Hats of to Japanese players finding out these crazy shortcuts though. <-- a Finnish guy with no hat)

Francois Daniel wrote:I agree with you. Make this trick isn't so easy and 'Mori' can be called the god of Camel Try. Yes, it make some kind of luck to enter and stay in sweet spot. But I think Hisa is right when he said 3.7M isn't the same thing as 9.9M because you must ban this luck in your play for make it.

yes, there is a little luck for the warp to get your ball into/onto the wall so you can then guide the ball into the "sweet spot"....not much luck to keep it there once in there...cuz it requires a warp to get back out of it actually. As long as you don't jerk the controls once in the spot and don't use your bump button too much, you will stay in the spot.

With some practice though you can position the ball, orientation of the maze then do a quick wiggle-rotate to warp the ball to drastically increase the odds of having it warp where you want it to warp. it's a quick trial-n-error type of thing with a quick learning curve.

The 9.9 mil inp was available online(URL was given months ago). I watched it. It was cool to see but nothing extra special. There were a couple warps even in that run where it took the player 10-15 attempts to get it to warp where he could get the ball in the bumper spot. I wouldn't call that god-like.

Now, if he can top 1 million on the special course playing by the intended rules...then that skill of play might be god-like...much more so than watching him warp around here and there.

When he reached the max 9.9 million he still had tons of time left and a couple levels of the course to still complete.

It wasn't like he barely made the 9.9 million at the last second. He had plenty more room for error etc. and still reach 9.9 million.

I have said it would take some practice to get as proficient as he was at it...but it doesn't take his level of proficiency to get 9.9 million. It's likely where if score was tracked he could get 15-20 million while I would barely be reaching the 9.9 million mark.

Either way it's pointless since it's making up new rules for the game and the game doesn't track score beyond 9,999,990.

It also totally undermines those who are playing the game by it's intended rules. Playing the game these 2 separate ways would certainly require separate tracking. cameltry-spc and cameltry-spc-warp or something like that. Many would be tied for 1st with 9,999,990 though.

I'd bet if someone in the t7 competition used warps to get a really fast time for cameltry that time/score would be rejected in a heartbeat.