Hyper Sports NVRAM

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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LordGaz
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Post by LordGaz »

I don't know about an inp but here's a screenshot done with repeated attempts using save states. 5.98m on the first round and it looks like higher is possible, just once in a while you seem to get propelled extra high over the bar.

Tip: Don't use RLH it's too slow! ;). Set up buttons 1 and 3 as autofire buttons. A delay of 3 seems to work best for the pole vault. Then hold both buttons down when you need the extra speed :).

On the swimming a delay of 2 works best, if you don't move just release one of the buttons and press it again to make sure they're not cancelling out. Weightlifting is fun too :).

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Post by LN2 »

geesh look at how high that bar is! hehe

anyway, it has definitely opened this for discussion.

I think we need to decide what a REALISTIC height is that a real player can get in the first couple of loops.

5.93 definitely...but any higher?

..or should the nvram automatically have records achieved using RLH or autofire etc. that are already beyond what most would possibly be able to do to allow for the max mole points humanly possible?!?
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Post by AL »

Gaz me auld flower......

Save states and the rest are new to me.

I was just saying what was possible using 'normal' speeds.


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dskys
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Post by dskys »

A realistic height on the first round is 5.92

An occasional height is 5.93

An exceptional height is 5.94

I think the NV is ok as it is, it certainly doesn't want to include any higher results imo.

AL, you gonna come out of retirement if this is eventually allowed? ;)
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Post by LN2 »

dskys wrote:I think the NV is ok as it is, it certainly doesn't want to include any higher results imo.
That's part of the point of this discussion. What NV as it is, is ok?

I know of no official NVRAM file for use for setting HS scores.
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Post by dskys »

Ahh
Tommi posted an NV with 594, 593, 593. It's on the previous page :)

I use that exclusively now, hope it's allowed in the long run :)
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Post by LN2 »

well, that is what we were discussing. That certainly isn't an established nvram file to use...yet.

ie. if that 5.94 was recorded then a nvram file with three 5.94s can easily be made.

This can make a difference if the player has a mole run going in the loop including nailing a 5.93.

I'd bet someone going for WR on an arcade machine will have the pole vault records as high as they can possibly have them...even if that means playing 5-10 games to get a few 5.94s on the board.

There is nothing in the TG rules limiting what records can be on that arcade machine prior to going for a record score.

Based on this, IMHO I think the nvram file for HS should have records about as high as possible also.

By this I don't mean those from cheating etc. but what is realistically possible...which at this point seems to be three 5.94s for the records or perhaps even three 5.95s cuz I do remember on the 3rd or 4th loops getting a 5.95 if you nail it....so if you also nailed the 5.94 you wouldn't get the mole points.

I want to get an agreement here among top HS players before approaching other TG refs on this topic.

It can potentially mean a difference of 32k or more in score.
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Post by dskys »

The thing is, if someone starts nailing archery left right and centre the pole vault's gonna become less important anyway ;)

How do you arrive at a diiference of 32k? one extra 8000pt mole per round at 5.95?


I know that tommi's might not be the one but what's important now from mpov is to be allowed to use an NV file when making a recording.

I still think 3 5.95s (or .4s) is too high, especially for MAME.
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Post by LN2 »

dskys wrote:How do you arrive at a diiference of 32k? one extra 8000pt mole per round at 5.95?
Well, you had ones with 5.93s...which means a nailed 5.93 gets no mole points.... if all 5.95s, then the 5.93 and a 5.94 would earn mole points.

Given 8k per nail...that's 16k more per round on those later rounds....so I figured maybe you could do it twice...so 32k. :P

It was just an approximate number that for a WR attempt can make quite a bit of difference versus what players can score on other events.

Maybe there is someone out there that can nail the pole vault almost everytime...yet doesn't have the speed other players have so scores a tad less on the swimming, weightlifting and vault etc.
I still think 3 5.95s (or .4s) is too high, especially for MAME.
Well, that's what I am asking really..but still don't have a clear answer on it. Answers are convoluted using cheats etc. instead of what can really be done.

So...top HS players...if you played 10-20 serious games of it where you at least get through 4 loops of the game each time....what would your pole vault records be at?

My guess is you would have them at 5.94s...not just 5.93s....but would you have any 5.95s?

Remember arcade games had 100s of plays...so even if you get only 1 5.95 in those 10-20 games, then on an arcade game with 100s odds are all three would be 5.95.

A player capable of excelling at the pole vault beyond other HS masters shouldn't be ripped off of that benefit of nailing vault after vault to get lots of mole points.

I remember 1 game I had once where I nailed SEVEN in a row on the first loop! That's some big time points! I actually nailed it an eighth time also...but it was a "record" so no mole points.

...so it's definitely possible someone out there has mastered the pole vault timing so well they can get the mole 75% of the time or more.
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Post by dskys »

Well I consider myself a top player so I still think that Tommi's NV is about right.

I personally am not great at Pole Vault, I can hit moles but I don't generate the same kind of speed I do on other events to make a realistic attempt at high clearances on the first couple of rounds. I can hit 5.92 semi-regularly but most of the time I fail before this (without moles the difference in score is so small it doesn't matter...) on the first and second rounds.

I agree a good PV player may hit a perfect take off around 75% of the time. That's still only 3 out of 4 tho so in theory not many 8k moles.

I think that if there is a player out there (reading this) that almost always gets into the 8k repeat then they should say something. I don't think there is, especially on MAME.

You can practice timing all you like but the simple fact is it's almost a split second thing whether or not you hit it or (on the first round) get 980 speed or overshoot. Even if your timing is great.. On archery for example, you can hit the first lot of targets all perfect (say on a wind of +3 - so you shoot as the blue segment passes the lower edge of the square target frame) but the damn thing moves. I'm sure of that. It's not the same round after round. At least it doesn't appear to be. This applies to Pole too. 7 games out of 10, if you hit the button as the right-hand edge of the pole passes the right-hand edge of the referee you hit the board perfectly, but this does seem to change from game to game - ie in some games you rack up points, in others it's all a bit sloppy.

I know you're aware of this, but a lot of records seen in arcade were 'team' records. Two people running, one jumping/breathing etc. Tommi is the top player here, his NV should stand, or at least an NV with similar scores.

5.94 and 5.95 is RARE, comparitively. The take off speeds needed are hard to hit on later rounds, and they were when I played back in the day too on the real thing. Yes the records relfect hundreds of games and yes occasionally someone will nail a 5.95. But out of 20 games (and including inps from here that I've watched) it just doesn't happen enough to warrant that being the standard.

As discussed previously, with respect to the records here, it's not even an issue. My score of 439k is made without a SINGLE mole throughout. Tommi's record of 447 doesnt have that many. No 8k's if I remember rightly. And certainly no 5.95.

After all the rambling my point is that you CAN'T expect every machine out there to be maxed out. It doesn't happen. I'm sure both me AL and Tommi hit three perfects on archery at some point way back when but it is incredibly rare.

I know to beat the 538k by Kelly %&$W&^%£&*£%^ that mole points are essential (especially by that point of the game) but he must have hit LOTS to get his score to get to 5th skeets and fail where he did. No one comes close on here to be honest. The only way that record will be beaten (here) is by someone getting to 9.80 horse. Prove me wrong - but it's got very little to do with how many extra 8k's are scored on earlier rounds from inps here. Just my opinion, but the top 3 players aren't consistent enough when the big points are available :)
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Post by The TJT »

dskys wrote:Tommi's record of 447 doesnt have that many. No 8k's if I remember rightly. And certainly no 5.95.
Hell no 5,95's :)
But those 8k's...I feel I got one :P
I'm sure both me AL and Tommi hit three perfects on archery at some point way back when but it is incredibly rare.
I NEVER did 3!!!
INCREDIBLY RARE SURE!
....and propably never will. Your's archery skills are superior to mine 8O
I think I'm VERY good at these kind of games, but your's archery...Huh, huh and huh!
(yet, I never, will be believe anybody doing 3 in row...that is just something a human should not be able to do, smiley, a grinning one)
If you want 3 times 5,94....that is no problem. But I will NOT make 5,95's, because I can't do that at first round without rlh.

P.S. Also, that NV should be converted to "read only" -file...If ever we get info what jeditors did decide... :)

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Post by The TJT »

[quote=dskys]
On archery for example, you can hit the first lot of targets all perfect (say on a wind of +3 - so you shoot as the blue segment passes the lower edge of the square target frame) but the damn thing moves. I'm sure of that. It's not the same round after round. At least it doesn't appear to be. This applies to Pole too. 7 games out of 10, if you hit the button as the right-hand edge of the pole passes the right-hand edge of the referee you hit the board perfectly, but this does seem to change from game to game
[/quote]

This is quite interesting observation!

I too think that the point when you are supposed to shoot at archery moves!!! That might be in my head though.
Pole "sweet spot", hehe, I feel, does not move.
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Post by LN2 »

The TJT wrote:If you want 3 times 5,94....that is no problem. But I will NOT make 5,95's, because I can't do that at first round without rlh.
please re-read the above question carefully.

You guys are obsessed with what you can get in the first loop. While that loop is certainly where you likely can get the most moles, there might be someone out there capable of hitting moles 50+% of the time even on the 3rd and 4th loops.

So....given 10-20 GAMES where you play a minimum of 4 LOOPS, ..so 400,000+ in score games... what would your pole vault records be?

I am not interested in games only playing through 1 or 2 or even only 3 loops.

I would guess you likely would have three 5.94s....but would you have even one 5.95? if so then an arcade machine with 100s of plays on it by a guy training and perhaps wanting to go for a world record likely would have at least those three 5.94s and potentially 5.95s.

Remember for arcade machines many scores are set using illegal devices to assist speeds. These still get saved as records on the game...which would benefit someone's score playing the game legitimately under TGTS.

ok? hope you understand the question this time. I want no more comments about what you can reach in the first loop. :P

Yes, I know from playing myself that nailing the vault on later rounds is more difficult...but certainly still doable.

I think what it might require is asking Robert or other TG refs of the arcade submissions, what are the pole vault records on that machine as shown in the tape?

That likely should be determined if possible anyway by reviewing the tapes for HS.
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Post by The TJT »

Rick, your points are valid.

I'm speaking about 1st round only, because machine I played was set at 1 round only.

I do understand, that records at arcade machine could be made with somekind of "cheat". We did make those top records at polevault 3-some.

Maybe pole records should be compared to what was Kelly's Heroes records, when he did hes score. Then again, that really does not matter, that was only one game, may that be the record nevertheless.
Also I have no idea if that hero game was set at reset scores at reset or never reset.

If you want to know "how high can you go"...then answer is, very high. 2 players playing 6fingers, plus one pushing jump is deadly. Yet you can not make such heights when playing solo. So it comes back to the missing 8k possibility. That shouldn't be the unreacheable height to kill TG record.
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Post by AL »

On 3rd Round and further PV, if you get full speed and time your release, 5.94m is easily doable by yourself. No need for mega speeds here.

I actually prefer(ed) 3rd Round for some reason......

I think 3 x 5m94 Jumps would be 'normal'. Most 5.95m jumps I seen in arcade were two players.

Gotta go. Busy in work here.....


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