Final try to stop all leeching in Toki.

[QRS]

What I find most "funny" about this talk about leeching in Toki is that the same (probably) people that voted for hardest settings on the last poll to avoid leeching in the game seems to have changed their minds... Right now we are going to the option "leech as hell" :=)

I´m really loking forward in seeing 1mil recordings on Toki.. WEEEE and the person does not need to finish the game! Just press f10 while you play and watch!

Geez..

Good luck to all of you that wants to "compete" on Toki with these rules. I´m glad that I won´t join you.

Cheers.

[destructor]

Maybe add one more position to vote:
Nothing, let's leech, but if finished game 1 life only - bonus 1 000 000.

[LN2]

I´m really loking forward in seeing 1mil recordings on Toki.. WEEEE and the person does not need to finish the game! Just press f10 while you play and watch!

You could easily add the special rule that if you use any leeching in Toki then you must complete the entire game for your score to be allowed give others have completed the game.

In general at Twin Galaxies leeching is totally allowed as long as you are making a progression through the game with the goal of completion. If 2 players for example have completed Donkey Kong and one has a higher score than the other, their score isn't rejected because they stopped at the end of levels to jump barrels as time permits then complete the level right at the last point. I'm sure over the course of the entire game of Donkey Kong the added time to the gameplay is quite long. It's just not as obvious as it is for Toki, but it's exactly the same score leeching technique in general.

Illegal leeching is where you really have no intention of ever completing the game, but just going to some spot/loop where you can play that area over and over and over again earning extra lives where you can play that loop 1000s of times. That isn't the case with Toki at all. You can only leech with your remaining time on each life until the time expires and you lose that life...never to regain lives back.

To me it still is skilled based cuz the faster you can get through the other parts of the game to get to good leeching spots, the more time you have left to leech points for the rest of that time period. Those not quite as skilled can perhaps get through the game also but will be losing men in other ways or not getting through areas as quickly so they have less time and less men left to leech.

There are 100+ other games that have totally analogous types of leeching. If this was disallowed for Toki then there are 100+ other games you would have to apply it to also and delete all those scores for those 100+ games cuz they all use those techniques.

As stated above it's too subjective. Given that for this game there is no clear way you can disallow any of the leeching. It's all within normal guidelines anyway. Yes it makes their game longer cuz they are using up all the time for all players. Yes it makes watching large parts of the replay boring...so what....not a reason to ban it.

I think just requiring they complete the game would be nice.

That is a nice simple special rule to add in the case of Toki.

[tmorrow]

Introducing the "if you leech then you must finish game" rule would be a good compromise but it complicates scoring and confirming though. In the case of Toki it won't make much difference because the game is easy but it might make a few submitters work harder to "earn their score".

QRS - as for your point on the irony of those voters that have swung from 'hardest settings to avoid leeching' to 'leech like crazy', I have to admit I'm one in that category. As I voted for hardest setting I remember thinking this could go against us. Harder settings mean more monsters, more points, more places to leech which might be counter productive. However I hoped that harder settings would indeed fix the problem. Unfortunately it didn't work. However, I still think enforced nonleeching is throwing the baby out with the bath water and would cripple this game.

[QRS]

Tim:The rule to set the game on harder settings worked. Right then we got rid of the leeching on the stage1 boss and made the game a little harder. The problem here is that people just trying to find new ways to leech in that game.

I mean There is a rule in gng that you can´t shoot zombiez on stage 3 for more than on your first life (example) a 5 men rule etc.. No using of the unlimited time bug etc. Except of that there are no more specialrules in that game. I know of more leeching places in that game, but I don´t use them. Instead I use common sense and try to avoid those leeching spots too.

That is my only point.
But we are all different.

Also TG and MARP is two dirrerent places and we don´t follow the same rules. Even if TG settings (or harder settings than default) is often prefered.

well enough of this. let´s see what the vote will be instead
Regards

QRS

[tmorrow]

Tim:The rule to set the game on harder settings worked. Right then we got rid of the leeching on the stage1 boss and made the game a little harder. The problem here is that people just trying to find new ways to leech in that game.QRS

No, the rule didn't work. Check the last inp again. The guy leeches there until the time runs out - by leeching I mean gathering points without moving on in the game using a minimal risk technique. The only reason he didn't repeat the leech there for all his lives is because the plant leeching later in the game is a better leech point

Sure, some people will keep looking for places to leech, others will avoid leech points altogether.

Maybe we should just make Toki a 1 life only game with 'leech like crazy' allowed. In this way the majority of available points will be from unleeched game play no matter how you play the game. Would that be an improvement? I'd like to see as many people happy with the final decision as possible.

BTW - it's very interesting that while we are talking about leeching and how it makes the game boring and repetitive, at this moment Hisa-Chan is mounting a serious campaign to max the score on Cleopatra within 5 minutes of game time - he's only 2 chains away I think. This ultimate leech will be characterised by making the game as short as possible unlike the usual leeches in most games. He's certainly captured the essence of high scores but I'm not sure about the essence of the game. More food for thought ...

Cheers,
Tim

[LN2]

I mean There is a rule in gng that you can´t shoot zombiez on stage 3 for more than on your first life (example) a 5 men rule etc.. No using of the unlimited time bug etc. Except of that there are no more specialrules in that game. I know of more leeching places in that game, but I don´t use them. Instead I use common sense and try to avoid those leeching spots too.

You can't compare Toki to Ghost-n-Goblins. In gng you can earn extra men in spots from earning enough points leeching so you can keep doing it over and over again. Toki has no "1up" areas does it where you earn extra men or earn extra men based on scoring does it? GNG does which makes it a different beast. That type of intentionally loop-leeching in gng must be disallowed or a high score means absolutely nothing. That isn't the case with Toki.

[QRS]

Ok I did not really compare gng and Toki. Sorry if it expressed myself wrong.
What I meant was only an example af a game where special rules were inplemented. I think special rules can fit for a game like Toki too (not the same ones though;)

I honestly think that the best sollution to this problem we have here is to make it legal to leech as much as you want on one man only.
(I don´t like the stage 5 leeching, but I can live with it if it is only on one men only )
That rule works very well on stage 3 on gng(ok just an example again ok? :=)

At least we won´t have recordings that takes hours to watch. The example of then squeesing out a few more points etc from the game will still be there, but we will not see (almost endless leeching recordings.

Cheers!

[cymek]

I join to my friend from Poland, especially to destructor. He is very good player but his records are discriminated .

[BBH]

I join to my friend from Poland, especially to destructor. He is very good player but his records are discriminate :evil: .

What the fuck?

There's no discrimination against destructor, he has a lot of great scores at MARP that nobody is contesting. As for Toki, this matter was being discussed before he submitted on it.

and in the Xain'd Sleena thread, Wuzel said something about how Polish people didn't seem to be welcomed here, or something. Again, what the fuck? There is no discrimination here against any country at MARP, everyone is welcome. But if you want to make it look like Polish players here are a bunch of whiners, you two are doing a good job so far.

[wuzel]

thx BBH!!!! u are very kind.
as about my post a forgot to add sth like "it seems that we are not ......bla bla bla......but.....i know leeching is bad and boring but its in our (polish people/players nature) it hard to win with myself i like 2 leeching
ofcourse in some games there is stupid 2 do the leeching for about an hour and the next player will bit your score simply by doing it a little longer - that makes no sense.
but in toki a think - lets leech as hell there is a timer and not many extra lives so.....why not....
like in my trojan inps - when a get a final answer - confirmed or deleted - there is also a timer and the infinitely extra guys so whats the big deal???
u (or anybody else) can try 2 do the leeching in the place as i did ( in second part of 2 stage its much easier but when doing it in this place u w arent able to get as much points as at stage 4) is not that simple
boring??? in spite of fact that i like this game very much watching ninja kid 2 makes me fall asleep twice
once again thx BBH. try 2 understand our mentality
Cymek: dont be so nervous there is no discrimination MARP is a ql place

[destructor]

I think that every player (begginer and others) know how to do finish Toki without leeching. But finished Toki with "maximum" leeching can MASTERS only.

[mahlemiut]

I don't see anything masterful in leeching.

[destructor]

Yes ?! Then you break my record.
Leeching in Toki show mastery. It isn't usual leeching. You must lose all lives to leeching and next finish game to make highest score.
Probably you don't manage this Mahlemiut. You need intensive training. How is you highest score on Toki? 1,2,50,100 pts?

[mahlemiut]

How about "I can't be fucked playing this game?" Leeching usually requires no skill whatsoever, and bores me silly. Yes, the boredom varies from game to game, but in this case, I couldn't be bothered to watch it end.