Old leaderboard style at 27-09-2004

[LN2]

I just had the realisation that most of the more active forum members are not in/from the USA.

In every Olympics, USA coverage has shown medal leaderboards with the countries sorted based on total medal count.

They showed the #gold, #silver, and #bronze but it's the total that determined the order.

I am guessing most other countries do it differently cuz they have no chance to be listed among the leaders based on total medal count, but some perhaps get those few gold medals that have them listed....or neighboring countries.

At the very top it makes little difference...same countries listed...just perhaps a few in a different order. It's lower where it makes the difference...similar to how MARP is now.

All that crap resulted in very few changes in the top 20 overall...but yes there were a few changes. I still think that's not worth it when it overall doesn't encourage participation but if anything discourages it. Has it really resolved the ABC uploaders issue? That issue is what started that whole leaderboard discussion.

Only play if you want to play the same game for months to get the top score...and hope you are able to get the top score. Anything else means little.

TJT, in MARP's eyes our Balloon Fight competition and others who I have had great competitions mean little now as second place means almost nothing. It also just supports what other certain member(s) say and use it to put-down others. Second place and lower scores are "worthless". You have no skill unless you can get the top score.

I am focusing my energies gaming-wise toward TG now. I actually haven't had much time to game and or do TG stuff as I would have liked the past few months...but hope that will change very soon.

I want to get a new computer(likely a Mac...perhaps that new G5 iMac) so I can use Panther with the newest Dev tools(Xcode) and start working on the mac/tgmame project. I could do that now but it would be with the older dev tools for the Jaguar OS where I would have to convert the project as well as other stuff for Xcode...so easier to just wait til I have Panther and XCode tools installed before working on the project.

Plus, the author of the "official" macmame as well as a few unofficial programmers have been working on an XCode build of macmame. It still has numerous issues but it at least gives a decent starting block.

[BBH]

Only play if you want to play the same game for months to get the top score...and hope you are able to get the top score. Anything else means little.

So you're saying it's a bad thing when people put more time into games and make better recordings compared to just playing it once for cheap leaderboard points and then never playing it again? And believe it or not, it doesn't require months just to get good at a game.

TJT, in MARP's eyes our Balloon Fight competition and others who I have had great competitions mean little now as second place means almost nothing. It also just supports what other certain member(s) say and use it to put-down others. Second place and lower scores are "worthless". You have no skill unless you can get the top score.

Worthless? The Balloon Fight competition between you two raised the bar considerably. If one or the other had never submitted a recording, the top score would have likely been lower to this day. It's beneficial to MARP as it has made the scores more respectable, and made for more entertaining recordings for people to watch. You're just too obsessed with the leaderboard, that's all.

There are tons of great recordings on MARP that were made by people who aren't near the top of the leaderboard. And I have respect for any player that produces a recording that is impressive to watch. I have much more respect for a person who produces 5 excellent recordings, than somebody who uploads 5000 crappy recordings because they're obsessed with the leaderboard and desperately want to climb in that unimportant ranking.

Remember, this is a REPLAY site. Upload recordings you think other people would want to watch.

[mahlemiut]

XMAME, compiled by GCC, would be so much easier.

[Weehawk]

Remember, this is a REPLAY site. Upload recordings you think other people would want to watch.

If they could...

[Cicca]

Thanks for te hints, guys.....

I just jumped at that page.....man....too many threads...discussions....bitching...and so on.....never mind....makes no difference to me having a LB or another....I'm too far from fighting for the firt positions....

[LN2]

So you're saying it's a bad thing when people put more time into games and make better recordings compared to just playing it once for cheap leaderboard points and then never playing it again?

No, this is good. I never submitted a score for a game until I am "done"/sick with it or think even if I played it 50 more times I likely wouldn't get a higher score or if it's good for first place and I am competing with someone.

And believe it or not, it doesn't require months just to get good at a game.

In lots of cases that's right. I would say about 75% of my submitted scores were playing the game for only 1-2 nights. Almost all of my various turbo-pac scores were just playing each of them only ONCE! Should I have not submitted those even though they were good for first place?

Worthless? The Balloon Fight competition between you two raised the bar considerably.

Thanks for that. The competition I had with QRS for Cameltry raised that bar also. TJT later improved on those even more. We had fun competing even though we couldn't view each other's replays. However, my point was there are lots of games where even the second place, and often even the third place score are great replays. Yet relative to the leaderboard now they mean nothing.

I am not obsessed with the leaderboard. It's a great sidebar type of thing though. It provided additional motivation for me and got me to try games I never would have touched. Overall I had only submitted scores for 5-6 games that weren't in the top 3. I am far from being one of those so-called ABC uploaders. It's funny though that those that really don't care about the leaderboard are those who bitched the most until this new Olympic style one was made....yet those who got enjoyment from the leaderboard ignored. Review those poll results again. The end result totally went against the poll results. That last poll result was totally misleading as most voted "yes" to ending the discussions...not "yes" to actually approve of the Olympic style leaderboard.

Anyway, I am past it. My participation at MARP with this leaderboard will never be what it was before. Going for leaderboard points had me and others playing LOTS of games I NEVER would have played otherwise. In many cases I was able to get the top score even for these games...at least for some period of time.

Admit BBH that even you played a lot of games for LB points that you likely wouldn't have played to the same extent otherwise. Out of those in the top 10 of the old style leaderboard at least 6-7 of them were playing games not cuz they loved all those games but to compete for leaderboard points. There is a big difference between playing for decent points versus having to strive for first place.

Notice with that old style my average points per submission was much higher than all others in the top 10....so I did care about the quality of my uploads also. I had an average of something like 82 pts per submission. That likely is down into the 70s now given all my first lace turbo scores are "archived". I have at least 50-75 replays for other rom sets I never submitted to MARP because I knew I wanted to return and play those games more...and I knew I still could easily improve my scores with only a couple days of play. If all I cared about was LB points then I would have submitted those other 50-75 replays which would have been good for about 3000+ LB points. There are at least 10 in those that are/were good for first place...yet I knew I could do much much better so didn't even submit those.

There are tons of great recordings on MARP that were made by people who aren't near the top of the leaderboard. And I have respect for any player that produces a recording that is impressive to watch. I have much more respect for a person who produces 5 excellent recordings, than somebody who uploads 5000 crappy recordings because they're obsessed with the leaderboard and desperately want to climb in that unimportant ranking.

Perhaps, but when I was fairly new to MARP I viewed that leaderboard and clicked on the links of names etc. to see what games they were great at.

Are you more impressed by a gamer who has submitted 50 first place scores versus someone who has 40 first place, 200 second place and 250 third place scores? It's likely much more than 10 of those second and third place scores are still high skilled replays.

The point is the new style LB didn't really change the top 20 all that much...except for a couple people....yet definitely changed the meaning of the LB. So much for competing for points anymore. Truthfully I never seriously competed for the LB points. I had a goal at one point to reach 100 first place scores and 10,000 points...and I did that....much more easily than I thought it would be.

In terms of making the crappy replays and scores not mean anything toward the LB, many suggestions for that were made that would have had an equal effect yet not devalued competition for the top 3 scores for a game. Even a simple 10-3-1 place points system would be far superior to this Olympic style leaderboard. Nope..the only way to move up the LB now is to get more first place scores.

Remember, this is a REPLAY site. Upload recordings you think other people would want to watch.

EXACTLY! My macmame replays which I upload are not just to rank against PC scores but to have my replays available for other macmame players!

The macmame community as a whole wasn't/isn't interested in MARP because there were very few to almost no replays that could be watched in macmame.

yet when I submitted lots of macmame replays to the point I am "threatening" the few really egotistical PC-gamers here...I get called "worthless" and a "cheater" and told to just go buy a PC and use wolfmame etc. Hell, Chad and other editors strongly requested I just visit a friend's house and set a few scores using wolfmame to "prove" I can score what I scored. There are enough of my replays that are viewable in pc-mame to show I scored what I scored.

That's a ridiculous request IMHO and essentially states they think I was cheating to get the scores I got and that I was doing it only for LB points.

If they didn't care about the LB then what was the big deal?

I have submitted lots of great replays that far exceed what macmame players have viewed or seen....even if some aren't the top score, they are still valuable replays at MARP given they are macmame replays.

I even went to the trouble with Lord Gaz's initial assistance to convert some of my macmame replays so they would playback in PC-MAME. Guess what? That still wasn't good enough for the MARP editors.

I did that so PC users that wanted to view a few specific replays of mine...could view it. Hmm, my pacman replay is worthless now I guess since it's only good for second place. IMHO that isn't the case at all...but it's how the LB treats it.

Everything in the last couple months I was actively playing was discouraging me from submitting more macmame replays.

That LB points competition was a tad more significant for me versus many others too because I can NOT participate in the Deca and other competitions since they all require wolfmame be used. Perhaps you overlook that. Those competitions are great and result in lots of great scores for MARP. They are competing for points against each other to decide the winner.

MARP has lost that by the change to the LB. It was the only competition I had through MARP.

This matters so much to me that I have initial plans laid out for making a build of mame for MacOS that will be cross-platform compatible with wolfmame....but of course will need some cooperation with the author of wolfmame. All of this is just so I and other macmame players can participate in these events.

If this planned build will ever get completed I have no clue at this point. There are still many "ifs" and "whens" to get past first.

ie. new mac...new OS....so the latest Dev tools. time to do the project...my recent relocation and new job etc. and when/potential advancement there etc.

I do have today off though so might play a few games of Mario Brothers today. I have been playing that a tad on and off...with the goal of 1+ million at TG settings....to submit to TG though....not MARP since it's with macmame.

[sawys]

very interesting sawys.
good work , thoughtful.
perhaps you can present a regular update ?
mathematical calculation , how sawys , program ?
precise , accurate , excellent

Hi, sorry to answer so late but yes i can make an update ... Right now.
I made update with uploads on marp. I put the new score in my file and with the formula of calculation all is automatical.

The bad thing is when i miss deleting inps or when uploads are zero ed.

But sometimes i go and verify.

One more thing.
I create this forum to talk about the old leaderboard and it was at the same time that the new leaderboard change his aspect. Now this is the old old leaderboard and not the old new leaderderboard... Do you know what i mean

[The TJT]

One more thing.
I create this forum to talk about the old leaderboard and it was at the same time that the new leaderboard change his aspect. Now this is the old old leaderboard and not the old new leaderderboard... Do you know what i mean

Yes...Tootsie was never as good as a man with a woman as he was as a woman with a woman. If he only could be as a man as he was as a woman but man dressed as a woman with a woman.

Anyway, I wouldn't like to see more of the "old old" leaderboard statistics. There is no point having several LBs....That makes the change to new LB not meaningful.