blocked score

dan · Post by **dan** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:31 pm

Is the AlphaMame block still effective?

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/0/d/e/al ... _win65.zip

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:35 pm

unblocked, kind of pointless to leave blocked scores on now.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:42 pm

I think we should not accept scores for 1st using not alpha or wolf.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:29 pm

i totally agree, but for now the policy is that we allow all versions of mame.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:05 pm

Poll?

For 1st we should accept:
1. wolf recordings only
2. wolf and alpha recordings only
3. all MAME versions (no change)

Or maybe for first 3 places?

Post by **Zhorik** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:53 am

And what do you do with existing first place scores that are non-Wolf/Alpha? Grandfather them or bump them down?

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:21 am

Zhorik wrote:And what do you do with existing first place scores that are non-Wolf/Alpha?

Nothing.

And if we decide to create poll then should be more than 1 poll.
First: should we use secure (wolf or alpha) MAME version for top recordings?
if yes: Second: should we use secure MAME version for 1st only or for 1st and 2nd or for 1st,2nd and 3rd?
Third: should we use wolf only or wolf/alpha or wolf/alpha70?

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:33 am

there is no such thing as a secure version unless you withhold the source, and with Aaron in charge you'll get shot down faster than you could say 'we need a new host' if you did that.

If you'd like me to demonstrate some perfect scores in Korean quiz games using a 'secure' version I'd be quite happy to

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:29 pm

Haze wrote: If you'd like me to demonstrate some perfect scores in Korean quiz games using a 'secure' version I'd be quite happy to

It's never too late to improve your language skills.

Seriously, a secure version makes the cheating just harder. There has been some debate previously that if you're clever enough to alter the code for cheating without being caught, then you must be clever enough not to cheat in first place. Looking at some emu boards I'm not so sure if this theory is correct.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:25 pm

Bottom line is, people cheat, whether intentional or otherwise.

Haze · Post by **Haze** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:51 pm

and while the 'secure' builds can give some indication of if people have cheated they can also lead to a false sense of security.

any data can be manipulated..

Post by **mahlemiut** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:08 pm

You sound like Neill Corlett there...

We are well aware that we will never totally eradicate cheating, but there is no reason why we shouldn't try to stop as much as we can.

Post by **Zhorik** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:06 am

For somebody that knows what they're doing, the vast majority of locks are not difficult to pick. Does this mean since they are not "secure" that its not worth locking the door to your home or car when you leave?

I think the MARP editors are well aware that WolfMAME recordings may have been hacked. At least with the MARP editors, I don't think there is a false sense of security. On the other hand, I'm not sure if all MARP members or all of the other sites that piggyback on WolfMAME as a "secure" version for submissions fully understand this.

WolfMAME security is really just "keep your kid brother out" level security, but IMO that's better than nothing at all if it stops 75%+ of the players from cheating. WolfMAME also makes it easier to catch unintentional "cheating" where people don't even realize they'd be violating MARP rules (e.g. pausing or playing below average minimum speed).

I'm sure WolfMAME helps cut down on the number of scores with both unintentional and intentional cheating. I think there are fairly many pre-Wolf scores that were played below 90% average speed or used pause. There probably are still some now, but I'm sure it's a lot less.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:11 am

Agree with Zhorik, but in this place:

Zhorik wrote:it stops 75%+ of the players from cheating.

I think 95%.

Poll!!!

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:42 am

Didn't we go through all of this before with the alphamame blocking?

What was the last non-wolfmame replay that was suspicious? The vast majority of the new replays in the top 3 places all use wolfmame. I do not see what the problem is.

Personally, I do not use wolfmame because it no loner has a GUI. I like to keep track of my number of plays and playtime for each game. Mameplus does this. It is also generally easier to change settings with a GUI.