Removing invalid scores

[Robert Griffin]

Hello to the MARP powers that be. I was curious as to whether or not some of the scores listed on the MARP site that were not done using the adopted rules will be removed?

For instance:
Matt Hall just posted a 1 million+ game on Robotron on level 10. Yet, there are two scores above his that did not use these settings. Shouldn't they be removed?

or

There are several games on the different Zoo Keeper versions where the banned "cocnut jumping" tactic was employed for millions of extra points. Shouldn't those be removed as well?

Especially on the Robotron listings, I would like to see an accurate representation of the games.

Thanks for listening,

Robert Griffin*

[Chad]

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999

i totally agree.

i totally agree.

i totally agree.

:)

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... xlines=999

there aren't any special rules i can see that would stop this one, can you gain infinite lives from coconut jumping?

[zlk]

TG banned the coconut jumping tactic.

Marp never banned the coconut jumping tactic.

You cannot get extra lives from doing it, and it isn't that easy to do. If anyone thinks it is that easy, then please take my money:

viewtopic.php?t=12868

[Robert Griffin]

TG banned the coconut jumping tactic.

Marp never banned the coconut jumping tactic.

You cannot get extra lives from doing it, and it isn't that easy to do.

True, it was not banned by MARP. However, it defeats the purpose of progressing into the game. It just seems a bit of a cheesy way to play.

[The TJT]

Hi Robert,
Yes, if a recording is against the rules, you can discuss it at regulation forum or simply ask an editor to zero it. For example, BBH is an editor.

Remember this Robotron thread:
viewtopic.php?t=12237

We thought that with improved? emulation, diff=10 would still be easier than those old scores by "SLA" and "Power of Pain"(don't you like that name...).
Donald claimed that he could do more at diff=10 with original machine than he could do with MAME old versions. So keeping old recordings seemed the right thing to do.
The game DID GET easier at MAME95 cycle.
Of course there's a possibility that Robotron emulation is still not arcade perfect.

I have to admit though that I tried recently couple games at diff=10 and It felt really hard, or I was very rusty. Looks like difficulty at blue romset(parent) has been all the way at diff=3 through different mame versions. So, all the old submissions(before the new rules) have been played using diff=3.
The question is, was old MAME versions diff=3 harder than current MAME emulation diff=10?
If so, then SLA looks pretty untouchable.

At Zookeeper, my expertise is limited, for having an opinion on one way or another. .

[Robert Griffin]

Hi Robert,
Yes, if a recording is against the rules, you can discuss it at regulation forum or simply ask an editor to zero it. For example, BBH is an editor.

Remember this Robotron thread:
viewtopic.php?t=12237

We thought that with improved? emulation, diff=10 would still be easier than those old scores by "SLA" and "Power of Pain"(don't you like that name...).
Donald claimed that he could do more at diff=10 with original machine than he could do with MAME old versions. So keeping old recordings seemed the right thing to do.
The game DID GET easier at MAME95 cycle.
Of course there's a possibility that Robotron emulation is still not arcade perfect.

I have to admit though that I tried recently couple games at diff=10 and It felt really hard, or I was very rusty. Looks like difficulty at blue romset(parent) has been all the way at diff=3 through different mame versions. So, all the old submissions(before the new rules) have been played using diff=3.
The question is, was old MAME versions diff=3 harder than current MAME emulation diff=10?
If so, then SLA looks pretty untouchable.

At Zookeeper, my expertise is limited, for having an opinion on one way or another. .

Yeah, "SLA" is Leslaw Skrzypek (how do you pronounce that?), and I know he is a master Robotron player, and very good at Zoo Keeper as well. That being said, I don't want anybody to think I am picking on him I know Robotron plays easier than it used to thanks to the "decoder" files now included (in many of the Williams games), but it still plays slightly harder than the arcade version.

I just think that if they were played on different settings than MARP has adopted now, they should be removed simply for the sake of continuitry & fairness. No disrespect to SLA or Mr. Pain, of course.

Playing on level 10 is really tough, and I think that idividuals who can post 1 million+ on this level deserve the status of being 1, 2 or 3 in the standings.

Plus, I don't know Matt too well, but I'm assuming that modesty may prevent him from zeroing out scores so he can get a 1st place listing

[Chad]

I also tried difficulty=10 recently and i feel that it is way harder than difficulty=10 in older mames. I have to try an older mame again at 10 to prove it. If this is true then, i think sla's recording should be cleared, he can pretty much make recordings at will if he's still around, so i don't think is a major upset. On the otherhand, if the two 10's are the same, it should stay there above matt, because from just looking the levels which he gets to change the difficulty to 10 anyway, but i'm not sure if mame35difficulty10 < mame106difficulty10.

[The TJT]

Chad the argument was if:
Old MAME diff=3 is harder than
New MAME diff=10

It should be a fact that newer emulation is more easy, as a proof I offer BBH's clone romset score.

[The TJT]

Chad the argument was if:
Old MAME diff=3 is harder than
New MAME diff=10

No, to answer my own question. It unfortunately seems that diff=10 at newer mame is harder. I guess emulation is still not 100%.

That leaves the question, what will we do. Zeroing all old scores at parent seems a bit harsh to me.

By the way, very good score BBH!

[BBH]

I completely disagree with difficulty 10 on post-0.95 versions of MAME being harder than the incorrect emulation on earlier versions. I wasn't able to break a million on the old versions, but now... yeah. Honestly, I don't see much of a difference at all between the two. The most crucial difference in the game on difficulty 10 is that sphereoids and quarks release enforcers and tanks much faster than they would on default difficulty, and on both difficulty 10 and the earlier versions of MAME, they seem to be released at about the same speed. If anybody can prove any actual differences in the two, I'd love to hear it, because they honestly do feel about the same to me in terms of difficulty. And that's why I don't think that SLA and "power of pain"'s excellent recordings should be zeroed.

It is possible that I got just slightly better at the game since my old recordings on MARP though, I'll try playing on wolf94 or one of the other versions with incorrect emulation and see how I do.

[Robert Griffin]

Hi guys,
I may have made my post prematurely or out of context, but the point I was trying to make was that if the recordings in question (SLA's & PoP's) were achieved at a lower difficulty, and the rules have since changed, shouldn't they be removed? I say this because it is not representative of how the game is being played at this point.

Does anybody know on what difficulty level they were played?

Again, this is not a knock against those two players, so please don't anybody take it that way!

[Chad]

they were defenitley played at normal diffuclty of 3 because if i remember right the F2 setup menu was not selected. But, they should not be zeroed just becase they start on that 3=difficulty, if you watch as the levels loop, the difficulty increases after looping thus they are really playing and getting high scores with the added difficulty. But damn if the first levels don't look easy and slow and no one is fighting back when SLA plays them. With difficulty 10, newmame verses old, I think the grunts are faster at the earlier levels and of course the quarks are released faster. But i'm now thinking this has to do with user input triggering rather than the difficulty level, although the difficulty level has a big play in the speed of things.

I'm not super gung ho about zeroing sla's (who i am 100% positive can play just as good starting on diffuclty 10), but the problem here is that if we don't zero recordings that don't start on difficutly 10, what is the point of having the special rule?

[Robert Griffin]

I'm not super gung ho about zeroing sla's (who i am 100% positive can play just as good starting on diffuclty 10), but the problem here is that if we don't zero recordings that don't start on difficutly 10, what is the point of having the special rule?

That is exactly my point, on all accounts.

[LN2]

yes...once a couple loops it likely plays similar for both settings...but at the 3 setting you can build up a lot more men early in the game which might be the difference between getting past those later waves or not.

[Robert Griffin]

yes...once a couple loops it likely plays similar for both settings...but at the 3 setting you can build up a lot more men early in the game which might be the difference between getting past those later waves or not.

That is correct. By about wave 6 (possibly even earlier) on Difficulty level 10, it's about as hard as it ever gets on Difficulty level 3.