DBZ2

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:37 am

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/c/b/em ... olf104.zip

Looks like buttons 3 & 4 are mapped to a single key in this replay. Anyone else agree or disagree?

(Waits for another lengthy discussion on this subject

)

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:20 am

How we can check it without input viewer?

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:42 pm

-iv 1 works fines for me.

mmxx · Post by **mmxx** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:04 am

good job!You are great,we cheat cheat cheat in every inp!!
I never believe marp ,EZ will leave marp.
NO skill just scores!
please delete every EZ INPs.Bye ,marp .....you are great,Baby!
China EZgame team no skill,just cheat!

By the way,delete my"crystal of kings"Inp,I won't want you to study from my inp.
I hate marp,Bye! continue to make your high scores,good luck!
FUUUUUUUUUXK!!!!
I can't stand for your. Delete all of my inps (above night slashers....all delete).

mmxx · Post by **mmxx** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:43 am

mahlemiut wrote: (Waits for another lengthy discussion on this subject )

No discussion at all,We cheat again,all right??and You told every with a smile of contentment ,You beat our team finally ,sir,congratulate!.
You delete my "crystal of the kings",all right? I have tell Phil my computer is old and pool ,and can't do the "nslshersj" inp.
but I try my best and use my skill to do the inp about "crystal of the kings",I also found almost all of the secret boxes in the inp.
You know it's very hard to do the inp in such slow speed. when got out,You said I use cheat!?

now my friend said we should make friendly to marp,and he got out"dbz2",you said we cheat again? what a good manage you are...

OK,now .all of the china Emu gameteam know marp from you,my superstar!

good job! cheat ,cheat,you just now cheat! no,and I fogot you also like scores.

Post by **Zhorik** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:09 am

I agree with Barry. It is very clear that multi-mapping was used. It is very easy to see that a single button was used to press weak and strong punch at the same time, and also weak and strong kick at the same time.

Per Rule 2.d, this isn't allowed, and was one of the specific cases Rule 2.d was added for (mapping two buttons on original game to a single MAME button which allows simultaneous trigger of both buttons on fighters with 100% accuracy).

I'm sorry to see that the EZ team feels persecuted, but MARP has rules for a reason. I hope the EZ team understands why we have the rules that we do and will have some patience while they learn them.

I dumped a trace file of the INP to a text file so it is easy to see the input from each frame. The trace file is attached. Its easy to see that the weak/strong inputs always start and end on exactly the same input frames, which is impossible to have happen so consistently without multi-mapping.

-gastrainga

mmxx · Post by **mmxx** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:09 am

Zhorik wrote:I agree with Barry. It is very clear that multi-mapping was used. It is very easy to see that a single button was used to press weak and strong punch at the same time, and also weak and strong kick at the same time.

Per Rule 2.d, this isn't allowed, and was one of the specific cases Rule 2.d was added for (mapping two buttons on original game to a single MAME button which allows simultaneous trigger of both buttons on fighters with 100% accuracy).

I'm sorry to see that the EZ team feels persecuted, but MARP has rules for a reason. I hope the EZ team understands why we have the rules that we do and will have some patience while they learn them.

I dumped a trace file of the INP to a text file so it is easy to see the input from each frame. The trace file is attached. Its easy to see that the weak/strong inputs always start and end on exactly the same input frames, which is impossible to have happen so consistently without multi-mapping.

-gastrainga

I just doubt why our inps always have problems?Unfair?
You know,you tell us please use WOLFMAME instead of MAMEPLUS,We agree,but when we use WOLFMAME,you doubt first
now,at last you delete, I really want to know why?Can you tell me?
It's difficult to make inps for Marp.Next I use what?
Buy an arcade machines to finish one game for marp,and use realplayer one to movie it...OK?

Post by **mahlemiut** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:45 am

No one here is suggesting that you are intentionally cheating. You just have to be aware of the rules.

http://marp.retrogames.com/rules/ <-- read carefully. If you are still unsure, just ask someone on these forums.

The main things to remember:

- Speed must be at least an average of 90%
- Settings must be set to their defaults, although you are welcome to use harder settings if you so wish.
- No autofire of any kind, unless the game specifically does this by default (ie: you can't enable an option to use autofire in the game's test mode)
- You must only use one key or joystick button for each button the arcade game has. For example, you can't map one key to two buttons to make some special moves in fighters easier.
- Some games have special rules, either outlining the scoring system used for those that typically don't have one, or specific banned techniques. Games that have these special rules will have a "special rules" link underneath the position.
- You are welcome to use MAME or MAME Plus if you really want to. The only rule on MAME versions is that you can't use the u versions, as the MARP game database is only updated for the major releases (ie: 0.101, 0.102... etc.). We do, however, strongly encourage you to use WolfMAME as it stores extra data (such as speed) to help eliminate any uncertainty in a recording. Without that extra data, we can still detect slowdown, but it's nowhere near as accurate.

Also, you have uploaded some legal inps, such as Guardians and Tora-he no Michi (Tiger Road).

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:01 pm

Zhorik wrote: I dumped a trace file of the INP to a text file so it is easy to see the input from each frame. The trace file is attached. Its easy to see that the weak/strong inputs always start and end on exactly the same input frames, which is impossible to have happen so consistently without multi-mapping.

Agreed. Definitely multiple button mapping used there. Feel free to zero it Barry.
Nothing personal against team EZ here. I'm sure you just were not informed well enough about the rules. Maybe it's language barrier. I'm sure you agree, if you think about it, that some rules are better than no rules at all. We try to be as close arcade-experience and level playground as possible...This means that also your scores can not be beaten with somebody using questionable ways to make game easier.

How about Nanni's first place then? Without looking into raw-data manually, quick analinp peek would suggest something fishy there.

Post by **Zhorik** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:35 pm

The TJT wrote:
Zhorik wrote: I dumped a trace file of the INP to a text file so it is easy to see the input from each frame. The trace file is attached. Its easy to see that the weak/strong inputs always start and end on exactly the same input frames, which is impossible to have happen so consistently without multi-mapping.
Agreed. Definitely multiple button mapping used there. Feel free to zero it Barry.
Nothing personal against team EZ here. I'm sure you just were not informed well enough about the rules. Maybe it's language barrier. I'm sure you agree, if you think about it, that some rules are better than no rules at all. We try to be as close arcade-experience and level playground as possible...This means that also your scores can not be beaten with somebody using questionable ways to make game easier.

How about Nanni's first place then? Without looking into raw-data manually, quick analinp peek would suggest something fishy there.

Nanni definitely used multi-mapping for weak and strong kick to occur with one button push. I attached a trace from Nanni's recording if you want to see for yourself. While Nanni's recording was done before Rule 2.d was passed, if team EZ's recording is zeroed, I think its only fair if Nanni's is as well.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:40 pm

Zhorik wrote: Nanni definitely used multi-mapping for weak and strong kick to occur with one button push. I attached a trace from Nanni's recording if you want to see for yourself. While Nanni's recording was done before Rule 2.d was passed, if team EZ's recording is zeroed, I think its only fair if Nanni's is as well.

Yes, both should be zeroed. Barry?

Thanks for the clear translation of the inp file. I wonder if someone could add similar >txt option to inpview.

mmxx · Post by **mmxx** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:58 pm

Sure,It seems that my "VAMP1/2" replays deleted.I just use EK-MAME to finish the games ,Because the speed is running to slow in my computer...

You may found out we never put the shooting games ,just ACTgames to marp.that's because EZ gameteam seems not believe shooting games either.
Shooting games in our replayzone aslo exist,but This inp were less recognized,Why? We also think somebody may easy use Slow speed to finish it.But we also have good stooting games replay,such as dodopachi,No miss,2loops.....
And I'm happy to see 19xx more than 13000000,But our record is 20000000,and We have full skills at how to leech more scores.
The marp rules are so strict,We owns we are not good at making replay rules in out team.And my frend said he used multi-mapping in DBZ2,I feel so lose and disappointed,I was really reasonless yestoday
You are really great,mahlemiut.thanks for your strict checking.I think you also be a careful man in your life,hope you better

Post by **mahlemiut** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:26 pm

The basic idea, is to try to be as close to simulate playing an actual arcade as possible. Obviously, we aren't playing on an actual arcade cabinet usually, and most MAME drivers aren't 100% accurate, but it gives as accurate a representation as to how someone would do in front of an actual arcade machine.

And 20 million is real nice on 19XX. Would be well worth a watch.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:04 am

The TJT wrote:Yes, both should be zeroed.

I think, not if Nanni inp was on MARP before made rule. If we delete Nanni inp what with inps where old (easier) settings was used?

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:55 am

destructor wrote:
The TJT wrote:Yes, both should be zeroed.
I think, not if Nanni inp was on MARP before made rule. If we delete Nanni inp what with inps where old (easier) settings was used?

It's a different issue. Normally we have been allowing easier settings then, if those settings have been good and recordings done on them have been skillfull.
The problem has mostly been if settings have been changed to easier at later mame versions...Then we normally would choose earlier settings.
------

On multiple button mapping:
-It would be unfair to zero only new scores using it. That kind of policy would give "you can do anything -status" to scores before some date. Not acceptable.

-There never was a time at MARP when multiple button mapping was really allowed, there just weren't written rules against that. (Nevertheless MARP policy has been from the early days to emulate arcade experience as close as possible)

As a conclusion, and once more, any editor can zero nanni's and emurc's dbz2 recordings.
DBZ2

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/e/2/f/jt ... wolf94.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/c/b/em ... olf104.zip

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DBZ2

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