gtsuprem split [AND GOLF SPLIT/ARCHIVE DISCUSSION-tjt]

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:36 pm

destructor wrote:I'm for A:
A)Removing ALL splits would still enable players to play different tracks(because there are usually so many clones), it just would be upto their choosing.

Yes, you understood it correct

Des wrote: This rule use for race games too. No 'courses games' splits.

I don't think there will be popular demand on canceling racing game splits... and a vote for that wouldn't pass anyway.
None of the racing games has so many splits as Golden Tee series does.
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Yes, on the other hand I understand golf splits by track, on the other hand I'm not sure if difference between tracks is so big gameplay-wise to justify splits. (Or how big is the gamplay difference between golden tee 97 and 98)

But main point is that line has to be drawn somewhere. Just look at the golden tee list at my previous post...That just ain't good for the competition.

Sawys wrote:I repeat that if the game shows different hall of fame then split the game like the score is stored in the board.

That would be one way to go, and probably Pat has usually gone with that rule...But what if one game has 100 different hall of fame entrys...and similar game has no hall of fame at all...

Sawys wrote:i noticed that gerhard and welby made competition - almost 480 scores posted from 28-12-2004 till 19-09-2005) you think in changing the rules.

Assumably they have had fun doing that, and hopefully they have learned to master the game to make it on the top on remaining marp entrys.

Finally, I'd like to say that if A or B will be chosen, then there will still be loads of golden tee marp entrys to compete at. :)

sawys · Post by **sawys** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:18 pm

The TJT wrote: Finally, I'd like to say that if A or B will be chosen, then there will still be loads of golden tee marp entrys to compete at.

So where do we vote ? Do you put a poll in a new topic ?

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:33 pm

New topic.
I was thinking to make a poll tomorrowwish

Frankie · Post by **Frankie** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:48 am

The TJT wrote:
destructor wrote:I'm for A:
A)Removing ALL splits would still enable players to play different tracks(because there are usually so many clones), it just would be upto their choosing.
Yes, you understood it correct

Yes, but the problem is will they play the same courses on the same clone. I can't believe you guys think this is right. I fear that in time one course will show easier than the others, and we'll only see recordings for that course, unless we have rules for what course to play when. Simply split the Parent rom into its 3 courses, and archive all the clones. That makes the low number of 3 MARP entries with fair an equal competition, can't be easier and fairer as that.

destructor wrote:
The TJT wrote: This rule use for race games too. No 'courses games' splits.
I don't think there will be popular demand on canceling racing game splits... and a vote for that wouldn't pass anyway.
None of the racing games has so many splits as Golden Tee series does.

You don't know if that vote wouldn't pass. In this vote its my opinion that option A would totally destroy the fun, and many will surely vote for it, cause they simply don't care about Golf games, just aslong as we are getting rid of all those uploads. What if there would be enough players out there who don't care about Racing games, that think the same way, then I'm not so sure the vote would go in the way you guys hope for.

You guys want to get rid of all the upload, then vote B. It only gives 3 MARP entries. With option A we are in the case of 'gt2k' already on 4 entries, and who knows how many clones will come for that game in the future. But the main point for option B is that we get fair and equal competition, and we are sure there'll be recordings for all courses on MARP, and not 99% recordings on course A and B because they are a little bit easier than course C.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:06 am

Seems to me that golden tee offers more room for competition than any mahjong/trivia title, and they are on par

with any of the other games that have splits. Each course takes time to learn, and each course is quite different from the others(on different parent sets), and there are some slight differences between clones and parent sets. The idea behind marp is to instill competition and create a repository of skill demonstrations(not just scores, but tricks/cool hidden stuff) available to everyone to see. I can't believe there can be that many more golden tee's(but I didn't realize there were this many originally either). These games have competitive value...that's why there are 107mahjong(just the ones with mahjong as the first word in the title ie: not including all of them by any means) and 41 starting with 'quiz'(not very good for competition outside asia for the most part(most seem to be in japanese/chinese--read either???)) and there are 34 in the space invaders and 21puck mans and 49 marvel/x-men and let's not forget 92 streetfighters...where would this end? Sorry to be so long winded, but it's been one of those days.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:41 am

Frankie kind of suggested C: Split parent, archive all clones.
What you think of that one?

I have problems putting that option into poll, having A,B and C options will eat eachother out. It would be possible to have round 2 voting of course for C against winning option of A or B. I feel that would be a bit excessive polling though, maybe I'll just stick with A or B.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:57 am

The TJT wrote:Frankie kind of suggested C: Split parent, archive all clones.
What you think of that one?

Totally disagree.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:37 pm

Poll posted.

dan · Post by **dan** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:58 pm

I think golf course splits are needed.

I think that splitting by Parent Rom and the clones is unnecessary for ALL of games.
Most games do not have the difference between Parent Rom and the clones for playing game.
However,it is not realistic. Because,nobody don't understand the difference for all the games.

I think that only the order of the course is different for Golden tee clones.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:23 pm

well, the poll certainly seems skewed to not allow for keeping things as is as it is not one of the options A/B, so will this change apply only to these games or to all clones across the board? This poll isn't right as written. Is there a minimun # of votes required?

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:13 pm

welby1 wrote:well, the poll certainly seems skewed to not allow for keeping things as is as it is not one of the options A/B

voting 1. "NO" will keep things as is, if it gets majority(then 2 is useless)
But you better vote at 2. too, incase NOs don't win.

, so will this change apply only to these games or to all clones across the board?

I don't understand the question. Poll is about golf games in general. As far as I know only Golden Tees and couple other golf games have splits.

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Lets list an example just to make sure you understand options:
golf.zip has 2 clones: golf2.zip and golf3.zip, each romset has 3 courses.

MARP tracks for golf +clones:

1.NO: (current situation):
golf(course 1)
golf(course 2)
golf(course 3)

golf2(course 1)
golf2(course 2)
golf2(course 3)

golf3(course 1)
golf3(course 2)
golf3(course 3)
...you can currently submit at 9 MARP submissions. ("all split")

2. A:
golf(any course)
golf2(any course)
golf3(any course)
...you could submit 3 MARP submissions. ("no splits")

2. B:
golf(course 1)
golf(course 2)
golf(course 3)

golf2(any course)
golf3(any course)
...you could submit 5 MARP submissions. ("parent split")

dan · Post by **dan** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:44 pm

The TJT wrote:
, so will this change apply only to these games or to all clones across the board?
I don't understand the question. Poll is about golf games in general. As far as I know only Golden Tees and couple other golf games have splits.

I am sorry for my remarks causing confusion.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:24 am

I was referring to all of the other repetive titles with clones, not just ones with splits. I don't see where these games have less value(for competition) than other games with many clones(like streetfighter, hang-on, mahjong betting games etc...if those games can count, then these games should count also. I guess it just never occured to anyone to just play these games and enter a score...I'm sure there's some room for improvement on at least a few of them.
tjt, I see your explanation, but it seemed to not be the case and your clarification is appreciated.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:13 pm

PL wrote:NOTE: there are HUGE implications with this vote!!! If A wins, MARP editors certainly will revaluate ALL splits based on courses alone and have more future polls. Likewise, if B passes, we could eventually "merge" all clones, keeping only the parents split.

This should be done game by game basis.
Notice that many clones have different gameplay compared to parent, one of them being previously mentioned shangon that varies a lot at different clones.

Another note:
Outrun could be split to which goal you finish, a,b,c...
However I don't think you need to split'em all outrun clones.

You can't make a general rule on splits, because cases are so different.
I think we are just using common sense in this golf vote -not making general rule.

Thx

MJS · Post by **MJS** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:52 pm

The TJT wrote:You can't make a general rule on splits, because cases are so different.
I think we are just using common sense in this golf vote -not making general rule.

I agree that rules should be made on a game by game basis, but why not have a general rule anyway? (like a default rule).
In this case, I would vote for splits respecting the hall of fame of each game (as sawys suggested) and only for the parent set.
If the split for a game doesn't make sense to the players, or someone thinks a clone should be splitted too, then we can make a specific poll.

I am not casting my vote in this poll because I have never played a golf game in my life, but what we are discussing seems to apply to all games.