Allowing diagonals?

kuba · Post by **kuba** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:58 pm

I think so just . They to sure combinations are indispensable if someone AS has not. Thinking the inp with games on Guna they should be canceled when someone used the mouse. What was with games in which he trackball or spinner? They be become deleted also? You do not know even it how it was it been possible was easily to cheat on AS even and to get autofire or macr. I without problem was able to execute such Arcade Stick and emulator would not detect fraud (I apologize for my English)
my MARP username "qba"

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:14 pm

The TJT wrote:Do you really think use of macros should be allowed?

That would be as bad as a programmable controller or an external autofire device.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:35 pm

I don't really care one way or other. I personally use keyboard 99% of time and I don't remap keys for diagonals, but I don't have any problems if someone does.

LordGaz · Post by **LordGaz** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:22 pm

Just to be awkward, what about mapping a direction and a button to one button? For example, a ninja game was mentioned on the old MARP greenspun forums where you needed to press right and jump simultaneously to execute a certain move and mapping these to one key made it easier.

MJS · Post by **MJS** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:23 pm

Here is a nice little proggie keyboard players will find useful:

http://bernie.hp.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin ... YCHECK.ZIP

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:33 pm

Using one key to push 2 or more buttons at once is gaining an advantage over those that don't do that. Using a keyboard is going to be a disadvantage, but much should be obvious. But using an emulator feature or an external program to gain an advantage over those that don't is rather unfair.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:22 pm

mahlemiut wrote:Using one key to push 2 or more buttons at once is gaining an advantage over those that don't do that. Using a keyboard is going to be a disadvantage, but much should be obvious. But using an emulator feature or an external program to gain an advantage over those that don't is rather unfair.

And Barry is fighting game fan. I'd also like to hear BBH's opinion on this.

The thing is, why to give advantage to keyboard players over (paid)joystick players.

And to Des: Don't come telling you can not buy an arcade stick, you have won so much money through competitions. If you can not do the transaction yourself, you can give money to somebody in USA, and they can send the stick for you

2. If MAME's goal, as Nicola Salmoria has stated, is to emulate the arcade game as closely as possible, then MARP's goal is to emulate the experience of "watching a virtual master play an arcade game", true to the arcade experience, as closely as possible. This has led to the following rulings:

I have absolutely nothing more to say.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:05 pm

The TJT wrote:
And to Des: Don't come telling you can not buy an arcade stick, you have won so much money through competitions. If you can not do the transaction yourself, you can give money to somebody in USA, and they can send the stick for you

Apparently, vodka comes first.

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm

If you have an advantage with better equipment.. so be it.. it is the same everywhere in life. Old car, new car etc.. There is no point to make up for that by cheating (which IMHO mapping two buttons to one and vice verse is) And there ARE cheap pads/joysticks that works very well.. they even cost less than a keyboard. I can't see ANY excuse for using a keyboard only (except that you prefer it!)

btw...

Why not allow pause because ordinary mame versions have a "p" button? Or Autofire again cause you can't stop using that little switch on your gamepad?

Geesh..

I will go and remap all my buttons on that mole game so I can hit them all with one button press. Nice and fair

Post by **Zhorik** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:33 pm

I'm definitely voting against the proposed rule in its current incarnation. If there was an exception for diagonals I might abstain instead. I use keyboard 95% of the time, and I have never submitted a recording using double mapped keys, but I have used them for private play (e.g. Robotron). I think this rule is a BAD idea since I don't think its solving a problem that is big enough to be worth the tension its causing between joystick and keyboard players. I also think it opens up a lot of borderline cases around what is "fair" or in the spirt of the game. For example, as Gavin pointed out, is it fair to play driving games with anything other than a steering wheel? Is it fair to adjust the sensitivity of your mouse to get longer drives in trackball based golf games? Is it fair to use the joystick for high jump in track and field when this clearly wasn't available in the arcade? Is it fair to use your hotrod right fire button when the original arcade game had only a left fire button? I'm sure any top Robotron player would prefer to play with a good dual joystick setup, even though diagonals aren't "easy", rather than a 16 key setup.

Have to run, but I'll pontificate further later.

-gastrainga

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:56 am

diabolik wrote:I personally use keyboard 99% of time and I don't remap keys for diagonals, but I don't have any problems if someone does.

True.

mahlemiut wrote:Using one key to push 2 or more buttons at once is gaining an advantage over those that don't do that. Using a keyboard is going to be a disadvantage, but much should be obvious. But using an emulator feature or an external program to gain an advantage over those that don't is rather unfair.

Do you can't set one button for 2 or more buttons on arcade stick? You can, I check it.

TJT wrote:And to Des: Don't come telling you can not buy an arcade stick, you have won so much money through competitions. If you can not do the transaction yourself, you can give money to somebody in USA, and they can send the stick for you

It's my problem only. I don't have money for life and I will buy arcade stick. You are crazy. If you are rich please buy me X-Arcade. And I early read that MAME is made for PC with keyboard not for rich people with X-Arcade or arcade cabinets.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:38 am

destructor wrote:Do you can't set one button for 2 or more buttons on arcade stick? You can, I check it.

Of course you can, still doesn't make it fair. It doesn't matter whether you map two keys or two joystick buttons to one game button, it's still attempting to gain an advantage over other players.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:45 am

mahlemiut wrote:
destructor wrote:Do you can't set one button for 2 or more buttons on arcade stick? You can, I check it.
Of course you can, still doesn't make it fair. It doesn't matter whether you map two keys or two joystick buttons to one game button, it's still attempting to gain an advantage over other players.

Over who players? Each player can map keys. If someone don't want to map keys then this is his problem only.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:49 am

The TJT wrote:
mahlemiut wrote:Using one key to push 2 or more buttons at once is gaining an advantage over those that don't do that. Using a keyboard is going to be a disadvantage, but much should be obvious. But using an emulator feature or an external program to gain an advantage over those that don't is rather unfair.
And Barry is fighting game fan. I'd also like to hear BBH's opinion on this.

Not surprisingly, I agree with Barry. Mapping two buttons to one key for fighting games can create an advantage you would not have in the arcade.

Take Samurai Shodown 1 and 2, for instance. A = Light slash, B = Medium slash, A+B = Hard slash. C = Light kick, D = Medium kick, C+D = Hard kick. It's basically a 6-button fighting game like Street Fighter, but you have to push two buttons together to trigger hard attacks. This is how it was in the arcade and that's how it should be played at MARP. Yes, there will always be times when you get sloppy and don't push the buttons at the right time and get a light/medium attack when you want a hard one. It would be more convenient to set it up as a six-button game, sure. But that's not how the game was intended to be played. If you want to do that for your own personal enjoyment, feel free... but for the sake of competition at MARP, it shouldn't be allowed.

Having a keyboard that has problems registering multiple keys is not a valid excuse for being able to take shortcuts in doing things that weren't intended on the original game. Come to think of it, wasn't there an option that was added at some point that makes it easier for MAME to pick up multiple key presses (but lags a tiny bit in timing)? I'd go look it up but I'm lazy :P All I know is that after doing a little testing I've found that I have no problems doing a move that requires 4 buttons to be pressed at once... so I don't see why it should be acceptable to set up multiple buttons to one key.

(wait, am I posting this in the right thread?)

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:03 am

It's my problem only. I don't have money for life and I will buy arcade stick. You are crazy. If you are rich please buy me X-Arcade. And I early read that MAME is made for PC with keyboard not for rich people with X-Arcade or arcade cabinets.

Not true.
If you have money to buy a PC, then you have money to buy a cheap joypad...which are equally good than arcade stick at fighting games (BBH uses joypad).

Do you want to have advantage over other players that use arcade stick or joypad, who play the game like it was meant to be played. Apparently you do.

Do you can't set one button for 2 or more buttons on arcade stick? You can, I check it.

You can cheat using multiple key(not diagonal) mapping at Hotrod even better than at keyboard. (because of "antialiasing" of keyboard). These rules are for arcade controller players too.