FINALLY - someone please verify :)

[QRS]

The rules for this game stays, and as the editors sees it, there is still no need for allowing NVRAM. Absolutly no point at all. So far still no valid argument. dskys, you may agree or disagree with that, but its a fact according to MARP rules.

Alex:Exatcly what I mean.

From my part this is the end of this discussion and we will focus on the next game. I will not comment this further until I see a valid argument.

ps
I do hope to see top recordings from you guys though and I hope that none of you feel that you don't want to upload because of this.

thanks.

[QRS]

But I'm sure there is a place at MARP where one can upload a 538k+ score, just so other folks can see. But not at regular listings.

AL

Of course! I'm sure we will find some way to have that recording stored at MARP!

[mahlemiut]

Must I mention that "awesome replay thread" again?
viewtopic.php?t=11642

[The TJT]

So if anyone has any valid points according to the MARP rules regarding Hypersports, please tell us. So far I have not seen any.

1. The fact is that top players of HS feel that no nv takes something away from the gameplay, not only score.
2. Marp is supposed to simulate real arcade playing conditions of the game.
3. No nv makes smaller score.
4. Players of the game should decide how they play it.
5. TG

So if anyone has any valid points according to the MARP rules regarding Hypersports, please tell us. So far I have not seen any.

And I haven't seen any valid points to DENY use of nv:

1. "it's only about score."

...I have said many times that IT IS NOT. Timing at pole is essential part of the game. Tests your skills and head, try to keep your cool after 3rd 8k mole
....If it WAS only about the score, think about it, what else is there to play at HS than score? What do you play games for if not score? This is not game where your aim is to finish the game, but this is a game where your aim is to score high. Top 3 players get at same point (9,60 horse)

2. "If we allow HS, there will be similar requests for other games"

Now, how good reasoning is that! ...Hell, if you are supposed to talk about allowing nv for HS...then you should talk about HS, not other games!

I feel that 2 was the main reason to not allow it. Editors were scared of similar requests. Yet every request is different. HS would have only one nv, at other games there might be demand for several different nv's: At Gauntlet or GauntletII(change level order)there could be thousands differing nv's, which would be a reason by itself to not allow one for Gauntlet.

3. "It's difficult to use nv"
Not good reason. I'm ready to try playback HS scores with nv. It's very easy;Only one nv used, a recording playsback or not.

----
7 out of 6 editors voted against. Terrifying consensus. That cannot be based on arguments around HS, but will to prevent "similar" demands in the future.
I too feel decision was wrong, but you already knew that, didn't you.

[mahlemiut]

And I haven't seen any valid points to DENY use of nv:

You mean like playbackability or consistency?

[The TJT]

And I haven't seen any valid points to DENY use of nv:

You mean like playbackability or consistency?

Are you sure all scores playback without nv...

I'm ready to try playback HS scores with nv. It's very easy;Only one nv used, a recording playsback or not.

Consistency: Not sure what you mean by that...
Why to have special rule anyway if it's not used because of "consistency"

[Weehawk]

7 out of 6 editors voted against.

Actually, we have seven editors again, but I'll let them be the ones to announce it.

[The TJT]

End of discussion. I dleted my inp several hours ago. I have no will to compete at the game with current rules, sorry.

[mahlemiut]

You know, it is perfectly possible for an arcade to have the records set to "Erase on reset" - which is the MAME default too. Besides, if I understand this right, some mole points are still possible without NVRAM, just not as much.

[The TJT]

You know, it is perfectly possible for an arcade to have the records set to "Erase on reset" - which is the MAME default too.

Yes, but at arcade you don't switch off the game after each play
(I hope:o)

Besides, if I understand this right, some mole points are still possible without NVRAM, just not as much.

Yes, most are at the first round though. Only real chance for those 8k molez.

[QRS]

1. The fact is that top players of HS feel that no nv takes something away from the gameplay, not only score.

If that is the only reason top players are playing the game I can't help you. I find it hard to belive that the rest of the game doen't matter.

2. Marp is supposed to simulate real arcade playing conditions of the game.

True, but on a leveled base. Without NVRAM you are 100% sure that all players start from scratch with NO advantages.

3. No nv makes smaller score.

Yes, but that is irrelevant. If you compete in MARP rules you compare your score to MARP, not TG.

4. Players of the game should decide how they play it.

True, but with all the chaos an pandemonium on the forum lately about how, when and what, someone needs to get in charge and decide something. This is what we have tried to do. On the other hand, if only one person really are good at the game, should only he decide about that game?

5. TG

TG has nothing to do with this. Read my earlier posts.

[/quote]

ps:Tommi, this is nothing personal and you know that:) I'm trying to be consistent and neutral here. Also, none of the editors are "scared" of similar requests. We will handle them as a separate game, look over all the advantages etc and decide after that.

[The TJT]

ps:Tommi, this is nothing personal and you know that:)

I know. Things fighting, not men. No need to go knitting jumpers

I don't agree with your counter arguments. Only one I agree that this is not TG. Yet, I feel it's better to have similar rules with TG, it does bring some extra motivation to try beat TG scores.
Otherwise I try not to comment anymore about different arguments, I still think my points are quite valid.
And I don't see good reasons not to allow it, except possible playback problems.

If you think about it, it seems somewhat unfair that other players(editors) are making decisions for other players. Anyway, I understand somebody had to make a decision. May the decision be right or wrong.
Wrong for the top players, for the players that know the game. Right for the bottom, players that don't care about the game, for not having to have "trouble" using nv.

[dskys]

I don't know how to delete my score else I would



Please can someone delete my score?

Rule 2h encourages the use of TG settings...

[mahlemiut]

Edit the game name to 'deleted'. Any previous recording you had before will be restored.

[LN2]

BBH, show me where you claim that thing for SF3? I remember no such thing. I never remember even participating in any SF3 discussions. I might have totally forgotten about it though...so refresh my memory. I can then review and tell you why I decided that for that game.

SF3 is SF3. HS is HS. Each game is its own game. Special rules can apply for different games. It happens on a case-by-case basis.

All people are playing on the same level now too. The only difference is the lower score. WHY should a game allow NVRAM just to get the score higher? Because TG will allow it? Just because Kelly has an unbeatable score without it? Because some people WANT a higher score? Sorry, but that is not enough for me to allow it in my opinion.

No, that isn't all of it. I look at it this way. MARP seems to want to be more than just a for-fun scoreboard for MAME. It also wants to have a collaboration with TG which is evidenced by the Deca and similar competitions. MARP also has long allowed TG settings be used for games instead of the MAME default settings so gamers here can post scores to the MARP scoreboard that also get submitted and likely end up on the TG scoreboard and also at the same time they participate in Deca competitions.

Many of the best scores for MARP are as a result of these various competitions. If settings for these competitions are different vs MARP settings/rules, then they end up archived or zeroed in which case I personally wouldn't even want my score/replay on the MARP scoreboard. It doesn't belong there.

So, now that isn't possible for HS.... I still think a "loophole" is there where you could play HS using a nvram file and just state you were playing using TG settings. That loophole needs to be closed.

If someone wants to compete and try to beat the TG mame (or arcade) record, use TG rules and upload it there!

Yes, this is likely what players will be doing....as well as for other games also. MARP won't have the best replays for these games anymore. You will have to look elsewhere for them.

And after that go ahead and do the same at MARP on the MARP rules!

ok, so a new world record score for TG is also uploaded to MARP as no nvram and ends up being a 2nd or 3rd place etc. type score. Oh boy...yeah. That's the ticket. It's not likely a gamer that has set a new WR would want their score listed as 2nd or 3rd.

why not make one for MARP and the other for TG? I mean some games at MARP does have splits or clones and people are uploading on them anyway.

Yes, this is certainly true...and some might do this....but you are removing what likely is a strength of a master player of the game from them not getting lots of the mole points they deserve for the pole vault.

As noted above, it's a flaw in Konami's game code....why punish the gamer for it when it's so easily avoided in MAME by having a standard nvram file be used to normalize an aspect of competition for this game that really wasn't even possible in arcades?

They just accept that it is two different kinds of communities and they upload under different rules to both of them sometimes. Think about that, because even if TG and MARP share many players and rules, we ARE two separate communities with different rules and different people.

yes, this is fine.....and fine for TG and MARP also. I have stated many times that MARP is MARP and TG is TG. By that I mean exactly what you state above.

However, MARP then can't bitch at these players are deleting their scores from MARP or why they won't make new replays etc. MARP makes their choices....gamers make their choices.
...so be it either way.

So if anyone has any valid points according to the MARP rules regarding Hypersports, please tell us. So far I have not seen any.

ok... I have made these points previously but perhaps they were overlooked so I will be more clear here...

1) given MARP allows you to play a game by TG settings by just showing "TG" in the description, gamers can use a nvram file and play via TG settings... although not official yet I am pretty sure TG will allow the nvram. It's a nice loophole in the MARP settings for games.

2) MARP rules allow a polling of the membership for possible exceptions or special cases/settings/rules for games. A special rule is passed when 2/3rds vote in favor of the change.

Was such a poll done for HS? It seems the editors made this recent choice without any poll at all. If a poll was done for this a couple years ago, fine...but perhaps it's time due to these discussions to have a new vote. The rule 2d change was great. That was needed. That change though doesn't change the fact you can have special rules for a game that override the general rules.

Odds are, given the editors were 7-0, that no way a poll would get 2/3rds anyway...since those 7 editors would vote no on that poll...but that process would then be more satisfying to many members...instead of just some absolute vote the membership doesn't get to participate in.

The reasons an editor gave above for why they voted to not allow nvram are invalid reasons. I explained the differences and potential misunderstandings for that reasoning.