Hyper Sports NVRAM

LordGaz · Post by **LordGaz** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:01 am

This seems to open up another question. If nvram is permitted, are you allowed to 'cheat' to set the pole vault records as high as possible in order to set the machine up for a later legitimate record attempt?

Consider this. In an arcade a three player team also using an electric toothbrush for rapid button pressing

do rather well and manage to set all three world records on the pole vault to 5.95m or higher over the course of a day

.

Later on an innocent player visits the town and playing solo he nails a few moles and beats his PB by about 24k due to the extra 8k moles he would not have gotten otherwise

. Remember the solo player is completely unaware of the three player 'team' that set the world records enabling him to do this.

The only way to ensure everyone plays on a level playing field is to EITHER go back to square one and disallow the use of nvram

, OR to use an nvram with records set ridiculously high using cheats.

If TG propose that you may use a standard nvram, records set using that nvram will be valid for TG but who's to say another organisation can't use an nvram with higher records. TG is not the be all and end all

.

Gaz

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:24 pm

Haven't really followed this whole discusion closely but to answer the speicific question: if and when nvrams will be allowed, all users would use the same nvram, so everyone would be cheating at the same level for convenience or for what ever reason the nvrams were allowed for.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:49 pm

Fully agree. No nvram on MARP.

dskys · Post by **dskys** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:39 pm

destructor wrote:Fully agree. No nvram on MARP.

Not being funny, but have you read the reasons for and against? I want the first place score here, and I would have it if it wasn't for NV. At the end of the day, what Tommi and AL have said has convinced me that they are in the right and that NV should be allowed. I thought it was semi accepted that this was the way to go?

This damn game is taking over my life just lately. I really neeed to get out more lol.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:01 pm

dskys wrote:Not being funny, but have you read the reasons for and against?

Yes. And comments are useless here. No nvram on MARP.

d) NVRAM, including the default NVRAM, is prohibited, with the exception of extraordinary circumstances. It's best to delete the NVRAM directory to ensure this doesn't happen. You can also download this file to ensure no nvram is used if you use the DOS Prompt. (usage: record {gamename}). It should be noted that in some games, having hiscore.dat present can affect playback, as can memory cards (memcard\memcard.*), so it would be wise to remove these before recording.

If you want to do world-highest score with nvram then go to TG. Maybe your wish will be realized.

dskys · Post by **dskys** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:47 pm

With the exception of extraordinary circumstances.

You obviously didn't read my previous post or those of the people that play the game. If someone were to beat the TG or indeed here's record WITHOUT NV then you have a good arguement. If your so against then why is Tommi's score still first? Because that's the sensible arcade-like way to play the game.

Anyway.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:58 pm

dskys wrote:If your so against then why is Tommi's score still first?

Because I'm not MARP administrator

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:58 pm

I have not edited my score, because I allways believed that NV should be used at HS. I don't remember if I agreed or not at the time of nv voting. I did protest strongly against not being able to use nv at hs though.

I can edit, or remove my recording, if it comes to that. Before DSK's recording there was not any reason to do that, it would've been first at that romset with or without nv.
It's not like I'm hiding in the shadows...

Highscore saving, like at arcades(hyperspt.nv). 9.60 at horse seemed to be too much...

...this comment has been there since 16 Nov 00, so some editors at marp must agree with my view. That recording is done before whole prohibit nv thingy.

Not that anyone is accusing me, but I felt I had to comment this now.

Des, editors are discussing about allowing nv at some games where you need it. If players of those games see it necessary, I don't see any reason to deny the fun from these players. Use of nv would still be generally prohibited, except at those games where you need it...special rules edited. You do sometimes need a default nv or such for recording and playbacking to be succesful.

Thanks,
TJT

dskys · Post by **dskys** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:10 pm

My comment was that to play the game with NV is sensible. If it wasn't clear!

Tommi, you know that if your 4 year old record was beaten at any time you would have beaten whoever did it, I wouldn't worry about it - was just pointing out that des had missed ? that a great score had been accepted

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:14 pm

Why use nvram? Only for megahigh score? Then all players must use the same nvram file (if not then here will be something no fair), and who must be first will be first with or without nvram. No difference if we use nvram or not for this game, but not using nvram is more fair.

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:29 pm

LordGaz, yes your above shows you grasp the situation perfectly.

My poser started as a proposal for TG to provide a nvram file for HS to use. You wouldn't be allowed to use your own nvram. Any TG ref(s) reviewing/playing back your inp file would use the TG nvram file...not what the player used.

This allows for fair and equal comparison like the records were all set exactly the same for each and every player.

There is definitely a flip-side to this also by not using nvram....where you want to be able to get as high as possible in the first 2 loops so you can potentially get more moles on the later loops. This would make it more important to nail a couple vaults to get up to at least 5.93 on the first loop and perhaps 5.94 on the second loop so at that point you would have as records one 5.94 and two 5.93s.

Someone only getting up to 5.92 on that first loop will not have as many chances for mole points in later loops.

However, TG has no zeroing of the event records requirement for HS. Odds are smart player would have played it a lot...perhaps using a pencil or ruler or friends to get even higher than they can possibly get actually playing the game normally. As stated above, the event records could have easily been set by other players...for the benefit of that new player..who then sets a new score record for the game.

Also guys, we aren't discussing MARP policy for HS here recently...but potential TG settings for setting records for the game.

It's clear MARP doesn't allow nvram be used....that's fine. I am not out to set MARP rules for HS. I am out to determine rules and settings for HS for TG-MAME.

Just cuz MARP doesn't allow nvram doesn't mean TG must follow suit. Ideally, I would want each TG settings and rules for most games to reflect as accurately as possible how it was playing the game in an arcade.

Arcade machines would clearly have records set already. To then have the MAME scores submitted to TG not use preset records(from nvram from previous plays) would result in lower scores and not a fair comparison to the arcade scores.

dskys · Post by **dskys** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:34 pm

Des, as I understand it, this is where we are:

MARP doesn;t allow NV. The hi score uses it, cos it was pre 'no NV' era
TG record is set using NV, don't think the records are documented
Me, AL and TJT think that NV should be allowed.
I think one of us could beat 538k (TG) without it but not the point
Playing like arcade, NV was a factor. In solo games, in multiplayer games, NV mattered
So allow it.

At the end of the day even suggesting us three still play it is a bit much, but the top three scores (and ALs for HO84) are over and above everything else.

It should be a special rule. I got 439k without a single mole. With TGs settings and NV and luck you can add 130k to this. Oops. new record folks.

To challenge TG it is necessary - I accept that now
To challenge here it's necessary.

Yes they are separate and a ruling here does not affect TG, but level playing fields and all that.

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:45 pm

Whoa...

I had not realized that any of the scores currently recognized by MARP on this title were recorded using NVRAM in violation of Rule 2.d)

I will bring it to the attention of the editors.

dskys · Post by **dskys** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:52 pm

I thought it was already being discussed?

The hi should stand, getting bored repeating now. Special rule needed (those three words seem ok for everything else lol)

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:55 pm

We are quite aware of the situation and there is no need to speculate more about it. We will present a revision of the NVRAM rule soon. Nothing big, but as it is a rule of MARP we have to thread carefully

Note:No specific game has been discussed. Just the rule.

Depending on Barry's modem will the rule be presented... maybe tomorrow?!