newbie Q: Why no NVRAM?

[joemagiera]

I honestly did try to search the archives before asking this, but couldn't find anything.

Why is there no NVRAM allowed for MARP? What purpose does it serve? What advantage does it give you? No problem complying, just wondering.

Joe
joemagiera@ameritech.net

[Weehawk]

I honestly did try to search the archives before asking this, but couldn't find anything.

Why is there no NVRAM allowed for MARP? What purpose does it serve? What advantage does it give you? No problem complying, just wondering.

Joe
joemagiera@ameritech.net

For a recording to playback properly, it must start from the exact same state as when it was recorded.

With respect to NVRAM the easiest way to assure this is not to use any.

[LN2]

To elaborate a tad more....some games save stats etc. which can then influence pseudo-random choices that happen in subsequent games. In these cases, the game must be in the exact same state(as noted above) so the same pseudo-random etc. choices are made to match the input from the recording.

There are other games that save values in nvram but only for a high score table etc.

If you know some games record and playback fine using nvram then go ahead and use it for your personal high score table(s)...but test each thoroughly beforehand.

It's just easiest to not go through that tedious process and just not allow it to save nvram.

[The TJT]

So what ln2 is basicly saing is that for example at Gauntlet II you could get more easy order of levels, when using nvram. Without nvram, order of levels is allways the same, same as game never played before.

Also there was an opinion that using nvram causes more work to playbackers, which I think is bulls... Extracting one nvram to right folder is not so hard to do But yes, playback should have same nvram-state as was before recording. Having no nvram at all ensures that nvram-state is allways default.

Nvram is though allowed, if playbacking a certain game succesfully needs that. Some games do. Then that nvram should be in default state=start game first time, exit, mame makes nvram. (Then again hypersports has some good arguments to allow highrecordnvram, I have made my recording before whole nvram discussion)

As practitional hint, remove your nvram directory...and put downbelow file in your mame directory. Doing that will stop mame making nvram directory and putting files there.

And, welcome back ln2

[LN2]

And, welcome back ln2

Hi...I'm not really "back". I happened to check the forums and saw a simple question I could give input for...so did.

I have not even launched macmame to play any game in the past 6 weeks.

I have not lost interest. I just have NO time right now. Once I move into a new place and get settled, then I might be able to start playing a tad again.

However, due to current changes at MARP...namely the lame leaderboard on the site currently...I have lost interest in participating at the level I did before. It's amazing a few that shout can drown out the overall membership opinions we had for the leaderboard. What a waste of energy all those discussions were.

I also have considered removing all of my scores that aren't top 3 scores. With the new leaderboard MARP considers those scores essentially worthless....so why have any here. Just make the site list the top 3 for each and that's it....delete the rest....might as well.

Instead, I will be aiming at certain goals. Here are a few things on my gaming to-do list:

5-man Q*Bert... set a 2+ million score (Given I set the 1.5 million one with only 2 days of play and 3 attempts, 2+ million shouldn't be that difficult)

mspacman (non-turbo/regular speed) get back in shape and set a 500+k score...with ultimate goal of reaching the kill screen. NO ONE has yet to accomplish this in MAME.

mario brothers not sure here.....perhaps set a 1+ million score....using USA rom set.

I will be using TG settings for all.

There is no motivation anymore to set scores for various games with the new "leaderboard".

I can't see how anyone can like this new leaderboard versus the old one. There are no links to get to the names or just see the 1st place scores etc. for a player anymore. Sure you could do that through the search engine...but it's tedious compared to just clicking a convenient link the old leaderboard had.

The combo of this with the whole view of MARP editors toward macmame has me not really caring about MARP anymore. My standing on the leaderboard wasn't affected by the change...but the leaderboard is pretty useless versus what it was previously.

It's odd TG accepts macmame without question yet particular members of MARP including a couple editors assume you are a cheater since using macmame instead of having gaming skill. It's sad.

I still have on my bad burner a macwolfmame project. Given the little free time I have the next month or so it's unlikely I will even start on such a project until September or October now.

[mahlemiut]

However, due to current changes at MARP...namely the lame leaderboard on the site currently...I have lost interest in participating at the level I did before. It's amazing a few that shout can drown out the overall membership opinions we had for the leaderboard. What a waste of energy all those discussions were.

More than 'a few' voted for it.

I also have considered removing all of my scores that aren't top 3 scores. With the new leaderboard MARP considers those scores essentially worthless....so why have any here. Just make the site list the top 3 for each and that's it....delete the rest....might as well.

They're only worthless if YOU consider them worthless. Otherwise, uploading lower scores would be blocked.

There is no motivation anymore to set scores for various games with the new "leaderboard".

I can't see how anyone can like this new leaderboard versus the old one. There are no links to get to the names or just see the 1st place scores etc. for a player anymore. Sure you could do that through the search engine...but it's tedious compared to just clicking a convenient link the old leaderboard had.

Well, when Zwaxy gets the time to a better job rather than throw something together in 5 minutes, you'll just have to be patient.

The combo of this with the whole view of MARP editors toward macmame has me not really caring about MARP anymore. My standing on the leaderboard wasn't affected by the change...but the leaderboard is pretty useless versus what it was previously.

Since when?

It's odd TG accepts macmame without question yet particular members of MARP including a couple editors assume you are a cheater since using macmame instead of having gaming skill. It's sad.

I still have on my bad burner a macwolfmame project. Given the little free time I have the next month or so it's unlikely I will even start on such a project until September or October now.

I'd produce one myself if cross-compiling was easy.

I'm sure it annoys people that they can't watch MacMAME inps. MacOS X users at least have X-MAME to try to watch Win32/DOS/Linux inps.

[The TJT]

Hi Rick,

I'm not bothered about lb change, it has sorted out submissions without inp-pride. Those click'n'search options are great features of marp. I hope Zwaxy makes "new" lb more advanced sometime. Maybe he should be emailed about it...not sure if he reads these forums regularly.

Don't let other people opinions put you down. I don't see using macmame is a crime. I'd prefer people using pc because of playback. I'm sure majority of marpers don't see you as a cheater. You wouldn't really gain much advantage by cheating anyway: Slowdown at pac-games don't help much. You don't play autofire games. You would've beaten me at bfight if used somekind of save state cheat.
I'd be somewhat proud to be accused of cheating, people not believing my mad skillz
Important is not to take things very personally, this is still only internet...I had earlier some pretty heated conversations with some players at forums, but meating them at person(hehe, that should be meeting)was still nice.

Sometimes you just need to take a break from games, playing much too much is not healthy. We've seen players say bye marp etc...but if they're players by heart they'll usually come back. I still think there is not a better site at internet than marp. Being able to submit yourself score so easy and even add your own comments and compete with other players at those classic games is great. Lb has it's function as one competition method too, but that's not all there is.

Anyway, I shall continue watching that foxy Sharapova vs Williams match now...

Later,

Tommi

[LN2]

I'm not bothered about lb change, it has sorted out submissions without inp-pride. Those click'n'search options are great features of marp. I hope Zwaxy makes "new" lb more advanced sometime. Maybe he should be emailed about it...not sure if he reads these forums regularly.

Well, yes I understand the current LB is a temp LB. However, when that was put up removing the old LB, it was stated a new one would be done in a few weeks. That was around 4-6 months ago.

I don't care if/when the new one is finished...but until it was the old LB could have still been online as an option to use.

If the new LB once done has the links on the place numbers for each player, then it would have regained 95% of what I liked of the older LB to start with.

I don't get Barry's comment about the vote though. We had 2-3 polls where it was very clear MARPers wanted a new LB(those that care about the LB at all) but still based on percentage points mainly with a slightly different place points part to it.

The "final poll" was misworded where I think most that voted "yes" just voted "yes" to have the discussions end. They weren't voting to approve of the new olympic style LB, but voting to end the issue....regardless.

Those results were flawed...yet action was taken based on that final poll...ignoring all the discussion and previous polls.

Don't let other people opinions put you down.

I don't...but it's certainly an antimotivator for playing games to set high scores except for games I really enjoyed. It's not worth time anymore to play a game for a few nights or whatever to set a new high score just to have others make comments like "oh, you only got that cuz you are using macmame."

It's not worth it.

I'd prefer people using pc because of playback.

Yes, I can understand the playback issues, but even when I started going to the trouble of converting many of my macmame inps so the converted inp would correctly playback in pc-mame nothing really came of it except being told to play in wolfmame so we can believe you really can play like that. Gimme a break...from watching the inps you can see I am not cheating but have mastered the game(s).

...so it seems some will never be satisfied....even when they can playback...cuz it wasn't recorded using wolfmame. It's a false security anyway as anyone could make some pc-mame to wolfmame inp converter and then cheat using regular pc-mame etc.

Sure, that's way too tedious for most. However, so is doing similar with macmame...yet some seem to think I do such things.

Now I have even proposed making a macwolfmame. I'm hesitant to make that cuz even if I do then some will still say I'm cheating cuz I'm using a build I made etc.

You wouldn't really gain much advantage by cheating anyway: Slowdown at pac-games don't help much. You don't play autofire games. You would've beaten me at bfight if used somekind of save state cheat.

exactly...yet the request of a wolfmame inp to make when I visit a friend is for pacman. ...not for galaga, not for nibbler....but pacman?!?!? a 20 minute inp at that. wtf is a 20 minute inp showing me clearing the first few boards going to prove versus the 6 hour converted inp that you can already view in pc-mame.

I'm sure even then that wouldn't satisfy and likely get others saying..well, if you could play 1 in wolfmame...then play them all.

Sometimes you just need to take a break from games, playing much too much is not healthy.

yep, I have certainly done that. The last time I seriously played any macmame was in March!!! I played about 1 hour in April and May...and none since.

I am hungry to play and set at least a couple of my above stated goals....and will just have to wait another month or so. I will be doing that to compete at the TG level though....not MARP. I likely will submit my inps to MARP also...for what it's worth....which if not in wolfmame seems to be nothing.

I propose every score (even prior to wolfmame) be removed from MARP then. We know it's likely some of those older scores, especially some played with 0.30-0.33rc1, had cheats on or were with games that just played easier in those old versions of mame from inaccurate emulation versus now.

Lb has it's function as one competition method too, but that's not all there is.

Actually, for macmamers, that LB was really the only competition we had. We can't play in any of the special events or tournaments that all you guys get to participate in. If I got to play in other events and competitions, perhaps I wouldn't have cared about the older LB at all except as a nice reference tool to see the other top players list of scores for games.

This is the main reason I plan to build a macwolfmame. Perhaps then we can participate in these other events.

It really sucks when you see an event like Weehawk's q*bert challenge recently where I know I could have competed well and likely won it...yet can't even participate....or a deca using several games I excel at....yet no playing for me.

I didn't even care about the bounty for q*bert...but wanted the competition. Can't do even though q*bert is a game where the macmame inp is 100% compatible and viewable in pc-mames.