Galagads

[Buttermaker]

Somebody call 1-800-WHAMBULANCE.

[Weehawk]

Somebody call 1-800-WHAMBULANCE.

A little humor Tommi, forgive us.

Seriously, remember the decision to remove these ROMsets from MAME had nothing to do with PAT. It's just been MARP policy all along that if MAME didn't support a game anymore, MARP wouldn't either. Maybe Pat had something to do with that. I don't know, but he's made it to where the games can still be submitted and available by archiving them. Maybe the linking problem can be solved...I don't know exactly how the system works.

What exactly is it you are wanting to vote on? That all ROMsets ever included in MAME should be kept in Regulation Play at MARP? As I wrote in a previous post, MARP policy can be changed, but in this case I personally would not be in favor of it.

I should have already posted regarding poll policy in this forum now that I am moderator. I will do so shortly.

[Patwos]

Noooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

My favourite version of Galaga thrown to the wastepiles of antiquity.... bother those MameDev people and their penchant for not supporting hacks that were in the arcades while continuing to add countless new versions of Mahjongg in each release.

Woe is me.

The other Pat.

[The TJT]

A little humor Tommi, forgive us.

Hehe(very dry laugh)
I understand you call me faggot now, very funny.
For having own opinion and not licking a*s or sucking di*k does not make one faggot.

You can "compromise" as much as you want, I don't want brownie points instead of lb points.

Seriously, remember the decision to remove these ROMsets from MAME had nothing to do with PAT. It's just been MARP policy all along that if MAME didn't support a game anymore, MARP wouldn't either. Maybe Pat had something to do with that. I don't know

I don't recall us voting about that anytime. I think it has been upto Pat what has been done. There have not been so many removals from mame previously.
These things should be voted upon, nevertheless I have only seen comments at this thread against archiving or deleting...Except Pat's opinion...but hes opinion is to * all clones too...

, but he's made it to where the games can still be submitted and available by archiving them. Maybe the linking problem can be solved...I don't know exactly how the system works.

Yes, because we are not told straight how system works.

Why do you get now lb points from galagads, but not galagab2,galaga84 or nebulbee. Is that what you call a "compromise". I call it bad logic.

What exactly is it you are wanting to vote on? That all ROMsets ever included in MAME should be kept in Regulation Play at MARP?

I explained already my opinion. Read my previous posts again.

Why not keep at marp all romsets ever included in mame. It has been so untill now...... except few cases when romsets have been removed from mame. Mame policy has been that if marble has more new parent romset, new one is named marble.zip, older parent still kept in mame but renamed.

As I wrote in a previous post, MARP policy can be changed, but in this case I personally would not be in favor of it.

You want compromise. Is it good for you that galagads gives lb points while other removed do not. That's just not fair in my opinion.

Why archive games that have been competed for long time. What games will be archived next.

I should have already posted regarding poll policy in this forum now that I am moderator. I will do so shortly.

Anybody should be able to make polls. Pre poll discussion should be demanded. Also 50-50 rule should be applied, 2/3 rule was never voted upon either.

[Weehawk]

I understand you call me faggot now, very funny.

Not at all. That picture was around before this thread was ever started. I was hoping we could keep a sense of humor here. It was not my intention to offend.

I don't want brownie points instead of lb points.

That goddamn leaderboard.

I think it's done MARP more harm than good.

I explained already my opinion. Read my previous posts again.

I read them the first time. I don't need to read them again. If it was clear to me I wouldn't have asked.

And being an asshole isn't the way to get any cooperation from me. Seriously.

Anybody should be able to make polls. Pre poll discussion should be demanded.

Pretty much. I'll explain more fully in a "Sticky" or "Announcement" post soon.

Also 50-50 rule should be applied, 2/3 rule was never voted upon either

"Changing a standing rule" requires a 2/3 vote. That itself could be changed of course, but it would require a 2/3 vote.

Keep it civil and we can at least discuss just about anything here. After all:

"MARP is a self-regulating community."

[The TJT]

As I understand, I'm first been called a faggot, then an asshole... Great!

[LN2]

There have not been so many removals from mame previouslyWhy not keep at marp all romsets ever included in mame. It has been so untill now...... except few cases when romsets have been removed from mame.

Actually, most rom sets removed from MAME in previous versions were because that rom set became obsolete because a more accurate or representative set of the arcade game was added for support...and/or the rom set shortname was changed.

This is the first time I have seen several rom sets just simply removed....with no alternate rom sets that are essentially the same game so it's more of a substitution/replacement than an elimination.

As I said above, if down the road MAME will have separate rom sets for turbo ms-pac, turbo-pac, etc. then removing that from the current drivers for those games is fine.

That representation wouldn't really be any closer to being accurate though as the turbo systems are essentially hacks with an extra chip and dip switch added to the system versus the original arcade game that allows you to have the game played at regular speed or turbo speed.

it has made it 2 games in 1. Given there are several other rom sets with multi-games in the 1 set, I'm not sure why the MAME dev team is against that in this case.

Fine, remove the hack from the driver. Fine the rom set that does have that extra chip and supports the button/dip switch for it if you wish.

It seems like unnecessary work though given we already have that.

It's hard to believe MARP soon might not track scores for turbo-mspac(mspac-fast) which is one of the more popular game tracks....especially with most 20th anniversary galaga/mspac systems setup in turbo mode.

[Weehawk]

As I understand, I'm first been called a faggot, then an asshole... Great!

As for the former, I explained that this was not my intention.

As for the latter...you earned that one.

Just mellow out. Everything's gonna be OK.

We're here to have fun.

And I'm here to help.

[***PL***]

Heck, Tommi, you truly show ZERO appreciation for people's efforts because you don't always get your way. I'm saddened you feel like that.

I don't think you have carefully read my posts on this topic, so here we go with the cliff notes...

Archiving games instead of complete removal
We all, including Weehawk, have decided to keep the games at MARP and you're still unhappy

5 years ago MARPers agreed to keep clones in LB pts and still do
My opinion of clones is just that an opinion, where do you get that I made a fuss? You're a damn hippocrite, you don't want LB pts, but want 10-3-1 pts for clones. Talk about being self-centered!

MARP will not be tracking dropped games or special dip switch versions
Geez, it was like that before me! The excellent point with galagads was that it's like pacman-fast...a popular speed hack; that's all...learn to read English!

Explained the importance and sensitive nature of linking
Links do not work for archived games because they are EXCEPTIONS to MAME's current romlist! And, obviously after my quick update, you were incapable of waiting ONE DAY for the system to catch up. Thank you very much!

You have no clue about the inner technical workings of MARP
The galaga-fast romset is being treated like a SPLIT, not a CLONE. So in case you missed it: links do not work for archived games and won't work for splits either. So go ahead and keep complaining about this major flaw at MARP! And since you care so much why don't you stop playing games and work for free like I have now for 5 years.

This is Chris' website, not mine, not yours, not anyone else's
A group needs to set and make sure players follow site rules -- that is why we have EDITORS

[diabolik]

That goddamn leaderboard.

I think it's done MARP more harm than good.

Let's go back to the good old 10-3-1 system (or something similar). This would drastically decrease the number of "worthless" uploads and also encourage people (those who care about lb) to submit better inps.

I like the idea of MARP leaderboard, but IMO it's almost a joke at its current form.

[BBH]

I don't really care for leaderboard points

If that is the final decision... I will loose lb points for
1. place at nebulbee
1. place at galaga84
2. place at galagab2

Also my lb position shows I have 48 first places now, not 50 anymore. That really sucks. Also I think my lb average drops a bit, I think.

...



by the way, nobody was actually calling you a "faggot". Like JTC said, it's a joke. It's sort of a running joke to use "fag0t" in place of "faggot" on pictures too.



See?

Anyway, what was I going to say? Oh yeah, the leaderboard is dumb.

[The TJT]

Heck, Tommi, you truly show ZERO appreciation for people's efforts because you don't always get your way. I'm saddened you feel like that.

I did it my way. Well, maybe my approach to subject was trying to force a bit too much my views. Notice though that you do the same too. I felt that you just did your stuff not waiting for even discussion to end, think about it.

Archiving games instead of complete removal
We all, including Weehawk, have decided to keep the games at MARP and you're still unhappy

That's good they are not dropped alltogether. I still don't get why galagads is not archived as other deleted roms. Why give different treatment to other games. Because of popularity?
...Saying that I mean other way around...give other deleted games same treatment as galagads.

5 years ago MARPers agreed to keep clones in LB pts and still do
My opinion of clones is just that an opinion, where do you get that I made a fuss? You're a damn hippocrite, you don't want LB pts, but want 10-3-1 pts for clones. Talk about being self-centered!

Aren't we all more or less self-centered. I understand you only told your opinion on clones treatment...So was I only voicing out my opinion on leaderboard, which you surely agree.
I think lb points would be more ok with 10-3-1. I don't want lb points with current system, much.

You have no clue about the inner technical workings of MARP
The galaga-fast romset is being treated like a SPLIT, not a CLONE. So in case you missed it: links do not work for archived games and won't work for splits either. So go ahead and keep complaining about this major flaw at MARP! And since you care so much why don't you stop playing games and work for free like I have now for 5 years.

I don't know if all your changes have catched up now.
Are we talking about same thing now...By "linking" I'm meaning the ability to click clone or parent rom screenshot at marp, getting as a result a search of all clones and parent +splits of the game.

Linking splits work atleast at Paperboy +all its clones and splits...therefore I do not understand why you say linking doesn't work for splits.

Now the situation for galagads is that galagads screenshot shows parent+some clones(not archived)...But galaga.zip screenshot does not include linking for galagads.

Appreciate your work, sorry. I was little rough on you. You gave back a bit, maybe deservedly. I'm with that.

Let's try be cool now, we should be able to discuss issues about videogames without too much passion

[The TJT]

I don't really care for leaderboard points

If that is the final decision... I will loose lb points for
1. place at nebulbee
1. place at galaga84
2. place at galagab2

Also my lb position shows I have 48 first places now, not 50 anymore. That really sucks. Also I think my lb average drops a bit, I think.

Wow! talk about taking words out of context...BBH you switched order of my sentences to use against me...
This is what I wrote:

If that is the final decision... I will loose lb points for
1. place at nebulbee
1. place at galaga84
2. place at galagab2

Also my lb position shows I have 48 first places now, not 50 anymore. That really sucks. Also I think my lb average drops a bit, I think.

I don't really care for leaderboard points, because lb does not show your gaming skills and is not good giving lot of overall points to players who have many 5 places or so. In short, lb position does not tell how good a player someone is.

But I DO CARE about lb showing your average and first to third places a player has.

by the way, nobody was actually calling you a "faggot". Like JTC said, it's a joke. It's sort of a running joke to use "fag0t" in place of "faggot" on pictures too.

Urbandictionary.com

1. Idiot, moron, incompetent, foolish, unskilled, etc. Essentially fag0t means whatever insult you want it to mean. (Commonly used with yuo, alternate spelling fagot).

Note: It is important not to confuse this word with faggot, which is a derogatory word for a homosexual. Fag0t, is just a general insult and in no way implies homosexuality.

Bob thinks I'm an idiot, but he is clearly the fag0t.
YUO = FAG0T!

2. L33tspeak for "fagget". Often used in anger to describe someone who is being a pompus asshole in chat rooms, forums, etc.
---

Insult nevertheless. I think JTC was somewhat out of order, I did not say him anything like that, neither deserved that atleast from him.
Tired about whole subject now.

Anyway, what was I going to say? Oh yeah, the leaderboard is dumb.

First place is deserved though!

having own opinion and not licking a*s

[LN2]

First, I would like to say it's nice to see some good bantering and vicious attacks between other MARPers where I'm not a target. j/k

*** LN2 anticipates vicious attack replies to that comment....at least getting slapped in the face by a big fish.

5 years ago MARPers agreed to keep clones in LB pts and still do

I agree with keeping clones...but not all clones. It should be handled on a case by case basis. There are likely some parent games that aren't necessary to track either. Like do we really need 200 mahjong games? Sure, many likely vary some etc. but I'm sure there is a lot of redundancy given that many tracks for mahjong. There are clearly many clones that play identically to others to the point you can even take a replay file played in the 1 clone rom set, and play it back in the other set and it works fine. I think in those cases those duplicates should be eliminated from the MARP scoreboard.

However, in many other cases, there is a significant difference between clones. For many games, clones are Japan vs USA rom sets where the game settings and extra men earned and timing of enemies etc. can differ making it quite a different game.

Look at qbert vs qbertjp vs qberttst vs myqbert as an example. qbertjp is much harder than qbert. myqbert is even harder...cuz you stop earning extra men beyond 190k plus more green guys coming out to mess up your progress.

There are also major differences for games like mario vs mariojp. The mariojp one has different fireball timings and awards an extra man every 30 k until you reach close to the 1 million mark for a total of 32 men for the game. The USA rom set mario has 3 start men and 1 extra man earned at 20k and that's it!

How can you just pick one and ignore the other in cases like that? I don't think you can.

In other cases, like pacman and it's various clones, it almost isn't even the same game except having the same concept. There are various pacman clones that play totally differently from pacman. However, there are also some that are identical so I ideally would like to see them removed. Puckman and pacman are identical except for the monster names. You can run the same grouping techniques and patterns and 9th key pattern on both.

For mspacman, there are clones with different mazes and clones like mschamp that change the gameplay by having a 1 minute time limit to complete each board...plus varying speeds from board to board making it even harder IMHO. mspacmab is identical to mspacman though so no need for that one.

If MARP simply said no clones we would be missing all of these types of variants of the games. It's something at some point it would be nice to eliminate the duplicate or nearly duplicate(duplicate in the sense of the gameplay being negligibly different from another rom set) clones at least and many unnecessary clones. Gauntlet is a good example here. Each clone plays a tad differently...but mainly from how much food it awards and ordering of the later levels more than anything else. Space Invaders is another....it has tons of clones. Do we really need to track all of those? Perhaps 3-5 out of the 20+ or however many clones there are of that game are worthy of tracking.

There are several other examples of this also where there are so many clones no way you need all of them for the game. Roadblasters is another one. I have many scores for these clones so just showing I'm not being biased here.

In regards to the leaderboard, I do wish there was a link to order and show the leaderboard based on the 10-3-1 system also. I thought it had that somewhere..but I can't find it. It should be on the normal leaderboard where you can toggle between the current LB points ordering and the 10-3-1 place points ordering.

[Weehawk]

Insult nevertheless. I think JTC was somewhat out of order

A little humor Tommi, forgive us.

Again, that picture was around before this thread. I only thought of it because of Butter's "Whambulance" remark. The fact that it said "fag0t County" on the side was beside the point. And I've changed it so that it says "MARP County" instead. Future readers of the forum need never question your sexual preference, even if they don't understand humor.

Now go talk to Haze about adding some more Phoenix clones to MAME to make up your lost leaderboard points.