Lord Gaz's Marble Madness!!!

[Mr. Kelly R. Flewin]

Lord Gaz..... DAYUM!! I thought Mr. Ward's score breaking the 200k+ barrier was nuts, but that was phenomenal!

Now I only have 3 questions...

1) Is it possible to run off the ramps and hit the "6" on the hopscotch
tableau? I assume that'd net 6000 instead of 5000.

2) Do you have any desire to try and even, daresay, improve that to a
near perfect run without any deaths?

3) Does anyone feel that if some of those bumps weren't taken, the 6
landed on, no deaths and a quicker running over of objects on the
Silly Race could lead to 210k or bigger? Or is that going to be
theoretically impossible?


Kelly

[LordGaz]

Lord Gaz..... DAYUM!! I thought Mr. Ward's score breaking the 200k+ barrier was nuts, but that was phenomenal!

Thank you very much . Gavin Ward's inp is an excellent game and worth watching I did learn a few things from it, mainly the 'jump' going over the final hump in the ultimate race. He also seems to have more control over the impulse of the marble which is probably down to his controller and settings and I can't see my score lasting very long if he wants to retaliate. Also I played 20 games in a row last before getting that 205570 score, everything has to come together in one game. Remember as well you score 21k more on set one that the other sets because of the extra time awarded.

1) Is it possible to run off the ramps and hit the "6" on the hopscotch tableau? I assume that'd net 6000 instead of 5000.

I have NEVER score a 6000 bonus on that pratice race jump.

2) Do you have any desire to try and even, daresay, improve that to a near perfect run without any deaths?

My aim is always to get a perfect run but as I said you need everything to go right in one game.

3) Does anyone feel that if some of those bumps weren't taken, the 6 landed on, no deaths and a quicker running over of objects on the Silly Race could lead to 210k or bigger? Or is that going to be theoretically impossible?

Yes I can envisage 210k+ on a perfect run. Watchin Gavin's inp I can see maybe 214k if he gets a perfect run. And if you can pull off Guinesses' shortcut on the ultimate race that's at least another 10k, I pulled it off once by accident but wasn't going for a top score in that game.

Gaz.

[The TJT]

Yes, very well indeed. But...

I feel you are playing totally different game compared to arcade.
You get so much advatage using keyboard/joystick.
Gameplay does not look like something you could ever do at arcade. The way and the speed the ball moves.
Looks totally different than play using original controls, trackball:

1. Acceleration: Looks like can accelerate much faster and change direction compared to trackball. Helps very much at small +3 sec monsters. If I'm spinning trackball one direction -takes little time to reverse the spinning of the trackball to go opposite direction. This does not seem to be the case with Gary's or Gavin's inps. Actually Gavin's acceleration and speed look even more impossible arcade-vise.

2. Speed: Looks like you can go faster than using trackball or arcade. Maybe it's possible to overpower arcade marble speed by using mame and keyboard sensitivity settings. Going all the time maximum speed looks to be the case here, at least.
I tell you...the jump at ultimate race...I do it too, but differently...I don't jump straight over...but going forward and slightly left. It's not even possible to do it way you do it...at arcade.

3. Difficulty: 20 tries in a row is not so much. I assume it's much more easy to learn keyboard/joystick compared to trackball.
Not only to learn, but after have learned keyboard/joystick, can get much much more often near personal maximum play.
Gary improved hes game from 150K to 170K in a relatively short time. It really takes loong time to do that at arcade. I also think it's not something everybody is even able to achieve, because you got to have so good cordination spinning the ball with both hands. Took me weeks/months to get from 150K to 170K....Think about the amount of money spend

4. Physicality: It's a contact sport really playing Marble at arcade. Completely different playing with keyboard.

If you ever seen somebody do 160K at arcade...you know the skill involved in that.
If you played the game at arcade, you know what I'm talking about.


Nevertheless, this is Mame, and there's not much I can do about you getting to use any kind of controls. My opinion is the game should be played only with trackball...but maybe I'm only one here doing so.
So I'll just say...Will not, and can not compete against those scores with trackball.
You are kinda competing in different category, different game. But I will surely watch your inps anyway, nice to see what would be possible in theory at arcade.

Man, I'm too retro, this has been boiling inside sometime , sorry about the rant,

TJT, 170540 Arcade

[LN2]

2. Speed: Looks like you can go faster than using trackball or arcade. Maybe it's possible to overpower arcade marble speed by using mame and keyboard sensitivity settings.

yep, I still wish the MAME dev team instead of just adding more and more games at this point actually add a fix to that analog track input overload issue. They could pretty easily add a setting to the analog input area that sets a max value for the input(s). Then if your input is higher than that value, that max value is what is fed into the game CPU.

It nailed me all the time when playing. I was only using a mouse for input so often would get the overload.

In watching their's they are moving faster than I can using my mouse.

I'm curious if these guys are using the keyboard control(perhaps with a controller) or using the track X/Y like with a mouse or some controller. My guess would be a controller using keyboard inputs cuz of the max speed maintained.

I seriously doubt they could match that with a trackball/mouse or any other controller that is using the track x/y instead of keyboard.

3. Difficulty: 20 tries in a row is not so much.

I agree.

The hardest part is the race with the hammers near the end and then the silly race very quickly squishing all the shrunken enemies.

Then the shortcut they are using on the final race now isn't all that easy to do. I wonder how many runs they had going great to that point and they miss that shortcut. It shaves off another 3-4 seconds I think.

If you ever seen somebody do 160K at arcade...you know the skill involved in that.
If you played the game at arcade, you know what I'm talking about.

Actually yes. Also, keep in mind most if not all you saw in the arcade are not (set 1) but one of the other sets so you have less time...adds up to 21k in score overall as mentioned above from differences in bonuses from the time differences. I remember getting scores of around 155k using what was one of those later sets where you start with only 55 seconds and get 5 seconds less bonus time added the next couple of races...so add 21k to that and you would be at 176k.

My opinion is the game should be played only with trackball...but maybe I'm only one here doing so.

Nope, I used my mouse for all of my runs which would have all the problems you do with a trackball and that analog overload issue.

I actually think if LordGaz applied the same changes to my Marble Madness inps as he applied to my pacman inp that it would also playback correctly. I had discovered I could add some header stuff and get at least the first level to play back correctly in pc-mame instead of it going into service mode. It seems a tad out of time sync though as on the 2nd race I barely miss that ball yet hit it on the playback.

So it sounds similar to what the pac-man issue was....simply some missing data at the start of the inp is the difference.

[The TJT]

Rick, actually I was not talking about mame analog overflow issue...I meant mame and keyboard/gamepad has greater speed compared to original arcade!
So I'm not talking about mame having bad playability with mouse...but I'm talking about mame having too good playability/speed/acceleration with other controls.

With my trackball I can get ALLMOST same kind of speeds than at arcade.

....Which is nothing compared to speed Gavin gets with hes controller.
U JUST COULD NOT DO THAT, no matter how fast u rolled.

(you are right about overflow though, never saw that at arcade at any spinner or trackball game)

That jump we talk about, It gives +3 seconds, success rate with mame+trackball or arcade is 10-80%, depending on someones skill and focus at that moment. Usually players don't use that, because very uncertain. I use it only if I seem to be exactly level with my current record...Happens when zoned I can most of the time do it, but if not zoned it's a desperate act
It looks to me that with keyboard u can do it quite differently, looks more easy. I think at arcade u could not do it like that, but u had to be little more precise where to land. I assume because of extra speed controls give with keyb/joy

I know Gary and Gavin don't use mouse, Gary uses keyboard, Gavin uses somekind of joystick/gamepad(look other thread)

Actually 155K is pretty/very good at arcade. As I told over 160K is very difficult. Now I'm talking about these normal 55sec at start games. Never saw machine which gave more, TG norm is just that.

[The TJT]

Hahaha! Just watched Gavins latest....Proves my point, this speed could not be reached at arcade. Look at jumps, look at collision with black.
Look how fast he responded to Gaz, must be easy thing to do...Marble goes so fast u really don't have to care about corners etc..ball will fly over!
We did those shortcuts too back at old days, but not all of them in same game...when ball is stunned it looses some control.

That would be about same caliber as much debated TG record of 187K.

U tell me how fast did he finish silly race? ...He got plenty of PLUS time there!

Like watching with F10 or fast forward on

Best for Aerial race was 19 seconds for us at arcade...every turn with maximum shortness, rolling like a madman all the time. Gavin did it with 18.

Not bad play though, many corners shortcutted there. I just think if it was so easy as it looked...I want same controller!

[LN2]

I understand you comments. I was saying though that using the KEY controls in MAME you can move faster than using the track x/y analog input....at least that's how it seems to me.

I have seen it in many other games also like Centipede.

Try moving the man around using your trackball...then tune and use keys instead. You will quikcly find you can move quite a bit faster using the keys versus the max your trackball or mouse can move it around.

I guarantee any controller used by them is bound to KEYS, not track x/y.

I'll have to download and watch these last couple. It will be worth firing up VPC to watch them. I remmeber watching the 195k inp file from the past and it was already faster than what I can possibly do with my mouse.

[LordGaz]

Yup, I can't argue with anything Tommi says there. There's no comparison between using the keyboard in MAME for MM and using a trackball in the arcade and this is the reason I never competed against Tommi's 172790 on rom set 2. The trackball does have more directional control but it's not enough to compensate for the speed/acceleration/physical disadvantage.

3. Difficulty: 20 tries in a row is not so much.

That was just last night, I'd played a little over the weekend too. Keyboard is my method of control and I was pulling off the jump trick less than 50% of the time.

Hahaha! Just watched Gavins latest....

Congrats Gavin! But did you have to beat it so fast? .

[Spoo]

I have NEVER score a 6000 bonus on that pratice race jump.

Same here. 5500 seems to be the maximum.

He also seems to have more control over the impulse of the marble which is probably down to his controller and settings

I got myself a new gamepad. It's better than my other one for just one reason: The D-Pad is the right shape . That's not particularly important though. The key is in the sensitivity settings:

Code: Select all

Key/Joy Speed = 22
Sensitivity = 250%

For optimal speed with a keyboard/pad without risk of overflow, pick any values that multiply to give 55.
22 x 250% = 55

My opinion is the game should be played only with trackball...

I suppose the Megadrive version is an abomination then . I think at least one of the sets should be set aside for trackball only play. I don't give a damn which, even if my scores are deleted, it's just something that should be done.
I've been using sets 3 and 4 for trackball runs, but I still haven't submitted anything for a couple of reasons:
a) I need a new trackball. This bugger keeps sticking despite repeated cleaning. Recommendations welcome.
b) I keep getting beaten by that damned analog overflow. It gets me at least a half-dozen times per game with variable results .

Congrats Gavin! But did you have to beat it so fast?

Yep. I'd been in a position to throw together a better score for a while, I just couldn't be bothered to try until I saw that my old one was beaten

[LordGaz]

I've just seen how to get the 6000 jump bonus by watching roncli's inp on the tricks page. I couldn't get it to playback before, oh well.

[The TJT]

I think at least one of the sets should be set aside for trackball only play. I don't give a damn which, even if my scores are deleted, it's just something that should be done

Gavin, I agree. I suggest set "marble2". I have no intention better that score now. You are welcome try beat 173K with a trackball

Just set special rules for marble2: What do other marpers think?

[LN2]

I think that would be sort of cool...but how would you confirm if someone was using an analog input device?

It would be entirely a subjective judgement call in watching the gameplay. I would hope someone that gets good enough playing it with a mouse or trackball wouldn't reach the point where you or someone else would say they are using the keyboard instead and want it zeroed cuz of that.

By "trackball" I assume you also would allow the use of a mouse.

If you mean trackball only I wouldn't be in favor of that cuz most don't have a trackball.

However, the ball movement limitations etc. are the same using the mouse as with a trackball so it would be a fair competition versus now with some using keys and getting more speed.

If the MAME dev team could fix that input code for analog devices then it wouldn't be an issue..and odds are we would have more control with a trackball/mouse....without sacrificing speed or worrying about overflow issues.

[Chad]

actually this is doable. er, at least i think so, if you are using a keyboard you'll get lots of movement keypresses, if you're using a trackball/mouse you'll get analogue inputs, so you can relatively easily tell them apart by looking at the inp bits and which ones were used and how much, what you wouldn't be able to do is to tell a spinner recording from a trackball one, but i don't think that matters in this case. i should do some test before i say this but i'm pretty sure you can distinguish a keyboard marble recording from a mouse one...

[mahlemiut]

I would doubt that there are seperate inputs for digital and analogue. The keys just map to the analogue inputs. Now, of course, it should be quite easy to tell if a digital input was used - it will have a set value that it would move, controlled by the 'Key/Joy speed' option in MAME. Not sure just how easy it would be to analyse externally, but some simple code could be added to MAME to check, perhaps.