"Preload" uploads

[dskys]

I don't slack off, I do the best I can.

The main difference between the scores comes from better skeets and better polevault imo ... that doesn't mean I'm slacking on the other events, it just means I'm not as good as them.

The other big diffeence between HS and TnF is that in HS each try gets you points (apart from teh Pole vault) whereas in tnf only your best try scores (apart from bonuses on certain events which are added as awarded) *i think*

[LN2]

I don't slack off, I do the best I can.

Well, what am I to think when you state:

I spose speed doesn't come into that game too much until the later rounds.

This implies you don't run at your fastest until the later rounds...cuz speed "doesn't come into that game" until the later rounds.

Then you follow it with:

the difference between sub50s on swimming and sub 45 is about 500 points. speed is not an issue on HS

This just reimplies the same thing. So you running a 49 second swim that first round instead of going for 45 or sub-45 to get that extra 500+ points doesn't really matter?!? ..since you state speed there is not an issue. Yes, it's not an issue to qualify...but is always an issue for score. I'd bet a 2 second faster swim awards the same extra score in the 5th swim as it does in the 1st swim.

500 points is 500 points. As I stated above, if you score 500 points less for that first swimming event, that's 500 points less in your final score...regardless what you do on all events after that first swim.

Now sure for many players...myself included...what kills off most of our games in HS is the 4th skeet shooting. I remember only once getting past that skeet..then lost it on the vault.

In those cases you are correct...someone with a lot of speed but can't get past the skeet shooting won't score as high for a final score versus someone with decent but not exceptional speed but is great at skeet shooting.

However, the speedster can always get a tad lucky or get the right rhythm going to get past that tough skeet...and then would have no problem likely getting around to the skeet again. A player lacking speed likely isn't going to suddenly have a burst of speed they never had before and swim or flip faster or lift more weight than ever before etc.

The person with more speed always has the higher score potential. The game reaches qualifying levels so severe at the 5th vault that even the speedsters will struggle with it and most top games end there. Only 1-3 have managed to get past that vault.

In this case you can almost call that a type of 'kill screen' where your game most likely will end. Given that certain end it seems optimizing points earned in every single event is important for having the highest total score.

The very top scores are somehow pretty good at all the events with no real weakness....including speed.

[dskys]

I see where you're coming from from what I said... BUT!

I always 'run' as fast as i can, typically i'll hit a couple under 45s and the rest 45/46 seconds. My point is that I'm faster than the scres higher than me IE!! i scored more on those events than the TJT's and Al's of this world did. Thus speed events are not the issue (when it comes to MY score)

Most everyone fails at 9.60 long horse. not because we can't do it, more because the run up's a lot faster, a perfect board is much much harder to hit and you have to nail the spins and hit a perfect landing to get 9.60.

Skeets aren't too much of a problem really, thereare only 6 variations to the pattern. a few days play and you can hit perfects on every one BUT not every time and thus if you only hit one perfect out of three youre looking at a 20k loss pointswise per round.

Speed IS NOT AN ISSUE because EVERYONE fails at 45s swimming. I'm the only one here with a time under that in an inp (44.36 i think's my best) but to hit the nobreathe, to run like that at that stage of the game is VERY difficult. The faster swimming times are on earlier rounds when you're fresher.

Speed is not an issue in weightlifting - rhythm is more the key - anyone can lift 260Kg with practise although 300Kg takes some doing. Consistently. And most of us don't even try... after all it's only a few hundred points, that over 5 rounds maybe amount to a few k.

Don't get me wrong, if it was one-round-only there'd be a lot more effort put into every event by the top players im sure.

Same really with Triple Jump. Is it 19.39 what Al's got? I think so heheh,, but at the end of the day that can be achieved without massive speed on the run up. I read somewhere once that anything over 'x' (i think it was 1400cm/s) doesn't affect your distance anyhow and as you get the bonus for hitting a perfect line people that achieve only 1200cm/s run speed can still max out this event.

The only events IMO in HS where real worthwhile points can be made up with the current state of inps on it here are Skeets, Archery and PoleVault. You could argue that PV needs speed to clear the bar at 5.92+ but tbh if you hit it right 3rd round or after speed is not a major factor.

Hope that explains my POV better

Adi

[dskys]

The very top scores are somehow pretty good at all the events with no real weakness....including speed.

Yeah, I am. I might only be third, but I am erm... pretty good

[Weehawk]

I thought the whole point of "How important is speed in game x" was how big an advantage in overall score someone using a speed cheat would have. (Sorry to get back on-topic)

In one game it might make a huge difference, in others it may be outweighed by other factors.

Simply that one will score higher by running faster than one otherwise would have should go without saying.

[dskys]

I thought the whole point of "How important is speed in game x" was how big an advantage in overall score someone using a speed cheat would have. (Sorry to get back on-topic)

In one game it might make a huge difference, in others it may be outweighed by other factors.

Simply that one will score higher by running faster than one otherwise would have should go without saying.

But running faster in the two games being discussed produces very different scores in both games,

Preload didn't do an inp for HS where IMO speed is not the issue, but he did for TnF where the only way to break 90k is to be fcking quick on the running events.

Yes in TnF what you say applies because most people max out the other events and the 2 running events give loadsa points for being quick. this isnt the case in HS

[Weehawk]

But running faster in the two games being discussed produces very different scores in both games,

Preload didn't do an inp for HS where IMO speed is not the issue, but he did for TnF where the only way to break 90k is to be fcking quick on the running events.

Well, that was my whole point.

[dskys]

Well, LN2 and I were talking about a game where imo its not an issue

[AL]

Still interesting stuff......

But can I point out a certain way of playing Hyper Sports in the Arcade VS MAME ? This way of playing addresses varying opinions on score per round...etc.

In my experience , there were two ways to play this game .

Firstly , playing to get the machine High-score . That would basically entail playing it 'safe' on most events ( where speed affects ) , the reason being , you don't wanna go necessaryily over stress your fingers early-on in the game . But on later rounds , you will need your speeds . That means a 'non-sore-set-of-fingers'....( avoid that if you can... ). And that is why players will not ' give-it-their-all ' in earlier stages . You'll do yer best , but ye won't be going for a record on the 50sec qualifying swimming . You'll play it 'safe' with the breathes.


Secondly , playing for World Records . Different way of playing here. In these type of games , you would always try to beat a WR , even if it meant losing your game...... To hell with the score .
It was always nice to have a Hyper Sports machine , with your High Score , plus records .


But with MAME/MARP the only way to play would be the former . High scores count here , not individual event records . So the way to play would be to try for score . Granted , you can try for records on any Archery / Skeets , but in my arcade experience , ye didn't overly tire your fingers .

That may well explain why players don't go 'all-out' in earlier rounds , and don't mind losing 500 pts a round / event / whatever.....

Just my two cent....

Cheers ,

AL

p.s Adrian , got TJ jump of 19.48m . But not in an INP...( Doh!)

[LN2]

That would basically entail playing it 'safe' on most events ( where speed affects ) , the reason being , you don't wanna go necessaryily over stress your fingers early-on in the game . But on later rounds , you will need your speeds . That means a 'non-sore-set-of-fingers'....( avoid that if you can... ). And that is why players will not ' give-it-their-all ' in earlier stages . You'll do yer best , but ye won't be going for a record on the 50sec qualifying swimming . You'll play it 'safe' with the breathes.

Yes, these are all valid points. I wouldn't worry about trying a no-breathe swimming run or nailing every single breath perfectly in the swim until that's what I must do to be fast enough to qualify. it's not worth the risk in the early rounds for only an extra few hundred points.

In the above post about weightlighting....I disagree... actually cuz the poor input handling of MacMAME or perhaps it's just the delay on my keyboard, I can't really obtain speeds to even lift 190(or is it 185 or 195...forget...hehe) kg.

There is little point in my even playing the game knowing my speed using my keyboard is slow to the point I likely won't make the 3rd vault.

However, even with that lack of speed I can do a 5.92 on the PV. I can't do that on the first round, but for the 3rd round where you have more approach speed in combo with the running after planting and releasing the pole, you can get 5.92 without needing lots of running speed. I just tap the button with 1 finger for those at a slightly casual pace. Now if I miss the perfect pole plant then I run fast and hope I can maybe still make the jump. For 5.92 I think you can only make that with a perfect plant anyway...but it's been too long since I have seriously played the game to remember for sure.

I have a PSX type controller for my computer but haven't tried configuring that for use as running. I'll have to try that and see how well it works. I'm guessing it won't be that great. For other games I get faster responsiveness and more control from using my keyboard than I get from the PSX type controller. It seems like the controller is a little lagged in response. It might be the drivers for the device as a middle man that is slowing things down. It might be where my CPU is pretty much being maxed out for playing the game so the device response processing is a little lagged from the driver standpoint.

I know for these games those with an arcade style controller system where they have button(s) they can run their fingers over to get that cool 6-finger technique going have a big advantage over those using other techniques.

With some joysticks though I wonder if you can get them sensitive enough and springy enough where you get a nice 'boingggg' effect from 1 flick of the stick that registers like tapping the buttons 5-6 times. That would allow you to get some serious speed.

[Chad]

preload, please stop it with the unconventional button mapping or autofiring, there's something wrong with what you're doing but any other players don't have your autofire signatures so something's going wrong with your recording. That's great you are using secure mame but it still doesn't mean you can try to short cut other methods.

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/a/0/mp ... lf74u1.zip

this latest undoukai CLEARLY shows autofire signatures. And funny your first upload shows normal presses (no autofire signatures) with a strangely different score.

[Weehawk]

preload, please stop it with the unconventional button mapping or autofiring

And I notice you zeroed his score.

Thank you for acting in the interests of honest MARP members.

I understand how mapping multiple keys to the same game input can result in faster virtual presses, but what exactly are the rules governing such techniques?

[Chad]

I'm not actually sure he's mapping multiple buttons, all i know is that he's got very hardware like button presses unlike human button presses. It's NOT that they are FAST, hisa can proly press the fastest, but his presses are still signatured as human. If we see presses that look like "hardware" it could be either slowdown or autofiring or button mapping into one button, something that isn't done in the arcade. I've ruled out slowdown unless he's hacking the inp (but that's doubftul) so it's prole one of the other two. So, basically anything that isn't done in "arcade" form isn't needed here.

Code: Select all

 2) MARP's goal is to emulate the experience of "watching a virtual master play an arcade game", true to the arcade experience, as closely as possible.

[Chad]

I also will reinstate any of preloads scores that are played in true araced score (even the 80k recording) that kind of recording is welcome here, (even though it's temporarily hiden by the 0 of the 500k score). We just want you to play like in the arcade preload, ok?

[dskys]

In the above post about weightlighting....I disagree... actually cuz the poor input handling of MacMAME or perhaps it's just the delay on my keyboard, I can't really obtain speeds to even lift 190(or is it 185 or 195...forget...hehe) kg.

Maybe it's different on a pc/mac to pc/mac basis then. On my Mame, I don't have to press anywhere near as fast to lift the higher end weights as I do to get a fast swimming.. Strange. I used to use a Logitech cordless keyboard which had horrendous delays for all games, now I have almost the same keyboard but it's not cordless and all's good.

I agree with you about the pole vault though, a perfect plant and good release makes 5.92/3/4 almost easy 3rd round in hehe.

Try going for precise presses rather than speed on the long horse too. If i get good alternating left-right with a little speed i get far more turns than eg left-right-right-left etc..

Al... 19.48! Never seen that anywhere... I always thought .39 was the maximum.