"Preload" uploads

[dskys]

LN2, the cascade technique is used in arcades on these games. I think tommi uses 6 fingers, some people used 8.

Using the default mame keys allows you to do this quite well, as long as you have a chunky space and left ctrl.

I am not fast enough on TnF, but on HS i do ok. My mate is BLINDINGLY fast on scace/control on HS and unfortunately this doesn't work as well in TnF because thats more rhythm and speed.

Don't really know the pointo f my post, suffice to say the drumming/cascading technique is completely legitimate.

if Preloads been using RLH that's a shame as he had submitted some good scores. Surprised Tommi wasn't more sure of his cheating though if this is the case. He thinks I cheat though so

j/k Tommi

[LN2]

LN2, the cascade technique is used in arcades on these games. I think tommi uses 6 fingers, some people used 8.

Using the default mame keys allows you to do this quite well, as long as you have a chunky space and left ctrl.

I am not fast enough on TnF, but on HS i do ok. My mate is BLINDINGLY fast on scace/control on HS and unfortunately this doesn't work as well in TnF because thats more rhythm and speed.

Don't really know the pointo f my post, suffice to say the drumming/cascading technique is completely legitimate.

yes, if done with only 2 running keys it's totally legitimate. The technique I was referring to is where you have bound more than 2 running keys. Even though this is sort of frowned on in configuration for games in MAME, there is really no way to know from the input file what keys were configured. My left-control key is decent enough to maybe do the proper cascading technique on that key, but my space bar sucks....isn't responsive enough to really get quick and frequent hits on it. My left num-pad enter key would likely be the other run key...with perhaps my left shift or 0 on the num-pad as the jump key....really only important for the hurdles in T-n-F.

So by cascading I wasn't refering to cascading your fingers over 1 key on each hand, but cascading a finger or 2 fingers over 5-10 keys on a row on your keyboard like running down a scale of piano keys. Then you just move your finger back-n-forth along that row of keys. This is definitely something you can't do on the arcade version since you only have the 2 buttons.

[dskys]

I just tried that using capslock l.shift, lctrl and the opposite on the other end of the keyboard and it doesnt work too well hehehe...

my mame seems to have issues (as does windoze) wuth that many keypresses at any one time. unless i was really light fingered then it might work.

anyway... back to stepmania.. this is far too addictive

ps: after i'd posted i realised what you meant heheh

[SJK]

anyway... back to stepmania.. this is far too addictive

LOL how can you find that better than any of these games? even us-games?

[preload]

ok, this thread is about preload only isn't it? and it appears s/he IS using the RLH cheat which my tools didn't check for, barry wrote something that does and he's most defineilty using it. I guess when autofire wasn't working to thwart my tools he used something else to run faster than he could with his fingers (as in the RLH cheat).

preload your english is good but you should know you have to play with mame legitimately to submit recordings here. And LN2 (rick) is right about my definition of "signature" you had autofire "signatures" in your recordings, they now are replaced by RLH "signatures" and thus we will only accept recordings that playback correctlywith out nvrams and that ar recorded with out any cheats.

I do not know what to say... I am not using cheats.
In the athletics games I use simply mine joypad and run with the analogic stick (left/right). Just as I made ago in the arcade many years ago.
If you think that my records are not regular and you want to delete them, makes it, I will send them newly, because sincerely I would not know what make. I am regularly playing following the marp's rules, but obviously if I send regular records and you say that they have been made with cheats I can make anithing, only to reconfirm my innocence.

P.S. I do not understand what means "autofire signatures". It' is too slow? or too fast?
Based on what you say that it has been made with rlh or autofire?

What I must make? Play another time to those games and insert the signature "PRE"?

Sorry but I do not understand...

[Chad]

thanks for keeping the communcation going preload, you seem like you want to follow the rules. It's possible you are enabling cheats in the ini file with out knowing. If you want to be real sure you aren't enabling cheats, use wolfmame for recordings since it will tell if cheats are enabled when you play the recording back among other things.

[Weehawk]

...If you want to be real sure you aren't enabling cheats, use wolfmame for recordings since it will tell if cheats are enabled when you play the recording back among other things.

Or, better yet, for games recordable by .70 use:

Alphamame70

It does not allow recording with cheats enabled. You will encounter much less suspicion using this version.

[The TJT]

I'm not so happy to write about this, but I can not watch someone play unfair and do nothing about it.
I don't know preloads real name, and maybe not wise to tell where he is busted. So easy to change email and marp prefix.But I tell anyway

he has been busted by programs of Chad and Barry and some details I notice simply by watching hes inps.

The big fuss here is not because he would have made some extraordinary scores at TF or other games. This is simply a matter of eliminating the cheats. Yes, I have to admit though, that I do not want to better my scores because of someone simply cheating.
I'm somewhat against multiple button mapping(and I admit I use 2 buttons for running at TF, but joystick at High Jump. If you really want I can explain why), but that is not the issue in this thread.

First I looked at hes Trackfld inp, for fun. I find some not so obvious strange things there. Then I start looking hes other similar inps.

First preload makes an inp at fieldday which is questioned for autof, then he makes equally looking inp, which is nearly busted but not quite. Maybe he slows down hes autofire a bit. Great, he has found the acceptable cheat value.
HARD EVIDENCE:
The question is: How does he make new, valid, inp with same controls that he used before????????, maybe he just runs slower with hes joystick(irony)
If cheat once, trust is lost.

Something to think about:
SOFT EVIDENCE:
He is not so fast at TF 100m, "only" about 8,20. But at 110m he is at EVERY inp really MUCH faster compared to hes speed at 100m. That can be just statistical differ, but as he says he uses all the time same controls every event every game -such variation of speed should be impropable.
Yet at some games/some events hes speeds stay same beyond my comprehension.

I suspect he uses cheat only sometimes, at some events. Some events look just like they should look when played fair.
Then again, logic fails: why not cheat all events?


VERY HARD EVIDENCE:
T&F High Jump: Sometimes hes jumps look normal, but sometimes hes jumps just rise much higher-higher than possible with buttons, or joystick.
Why some jumps look like normal joystick play(with bad timing btw), and some look like I've not seen before(except rlh inps)?
AT HYPROLYB HE JUMPS 2,52m, WHICH IS SURELY FAIR EVIDENCE OF CHEAT, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. As I remember correctly, he had some margin at that height too.
2.50 is possible with joystick, have even heard about 2,51 with very sensitive joystick(MKM), but he runs 100m much much much faster compared to preload. With preload speeds, no way. I have tried 2,51 several times with Hotrod +infinite tries cheat, can get "near" but never over.
If I would team up with my friend, who can do 6-fingers too, we could get same kind of heights(2,52). But that would be 6fingers at one, and 6 on another button...so called 12 finger technique- which would exceed the amount of fingers for average player
That would not be noticed as autofire surely. Speed of button presses would be alarmingly high though.

Then there are some "over the top" speeds at fieldday/undoukai, as I see.
Full speed at "soft ball" easy to spot.

How can anyone have EXACTLY same speed every high jump of 88games and konami88????!!!!! Allways 2 blocks from max. Otherwise they look pretty ok.
BTW, hes speeds are lesser than mine at these 2games, so I should be able to jump 2,52 at highjump too, or more. Which proves my point.
Maybe he has some kind of reasoning for cheating at high jump events.

The question is:
He clearly cheats at some games/events. How we know if other are valid? What will we do about it? I woul suggest 2 year ban from marp because of doping!
Or just delete all hes sports inps. Yes, all.

TJT
7,47

Nobody ever admits they cheat here.

[LN2]

AT HYPROLYB HE JUMPS 2,52m, WHICH IS SURELY FAIR EVIDENCE OF CHEAT, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. As I remember correctly, he had some margin at that height too.
2.50 is possible with joystick, have even heard about 2,51 with very sensitive joystick(MKM), but he runs 100m much much much faster compared to preload. With preload speeds, no way. I have tried 2,51 several times with Hotrod +infinite tries cheat, can get "near" but never over.

I used to be able to sometimes get 2.52m at the high jump on the arcade T-n-F. I wasn't the fastest runner either but would be around 7.6-7.8 for 100m so was fairly decent. I don't think it requires 1300+ speeds to get a 2.52. A 1250-1275 speed is good enough for 2.52 but you must nail the takeoff and angle adjustments just right to clear it. I always felt the timing of when you do the run "boost" was important also.

Then there are some "over the top" speeds at fieldday/undoukai, as I see.

For the first time around events in this particular game/clone, I can max or very nearly max the speed for many events just using 1 finger tapping on 1 button. It's not like T-n-F as far as speed tracking at all for many of the events.

How can anyone have EXACTLY same speed every high jump of 88games and konami88????!!!!! Allways 2 blocks from max. Otherwise they look pretty ok.

Yes, these are things to look for....in events like long jump and javelin for T-n-F, what is their final speed prior to jumping/throwing? Someone strictly using autofire or RLH would be almost exactly the same speed every trial. It would be easy to alter this a tad though by just not going 100% out using the autofire for the entire run stretch....like letting up on the button a touch here and there...so final approach speed varies some.

BTW, hes speeds are lesser than mine at these 2games, so I should be able to jump 2,52 at highjump too, or more. Which proves my point.

Not at all cuz as I mentioned above to get 2.52 at high jump doesn't require the fastest runner necessarily. I actually felt running beyond a certain speed could hinder the high jump. I saw others get the 2.52m jump also without being the fastest runners....good and fast runners..but not the fastest.

Maybe he has some kind of reasoning for cheating at high jump events.

Why are you focusing on the high jump so much? For one he isn't anywhere near your score overall. Plus the high jump would be one of the harder events from just viewing the gameplay to tell if any autofire or RLH was being used.

The question is:
He clearly cheats at some games/events. How we know if other are valid? What will we do about it? I woul suggest 2 year ban from marp because of doping!
Or just delete all hes sports inps. Yes, all.

I think you would need some really solid evidence of the above before any action even close to this should be taken. Even then at worse the action would be to just zero out those particular inps where there is evidence for using autofire or RLH....not something so drastic as banning him from MARP.

I'm confused why you are so adamant about this. It's not like he is getting a 95k score. He is only getting 88-89k. If someone was truly trying to cheat, would they settle for only 88-89k? I don't think so. They might not break your score but they likely would be up around at least 92k. Based on this alone I would say odds are it's legit play as long as the analinp Chad and Barry use to check the inps show no evidence of RLH or autofire.

[Weehawk]

The question is:
He clearly cheats at some games/events. How we know if other are valid? What will we do about it? I woul suggest 2 year ban from marp because of doping!
Or just delete all hes sports inps. Yes, all.

Like Chad, I want to hold on to some hope that there is an innocent explanation for all this, but if it is determined in the end that he is cheating and lying about it here, then I would have to agree with Tommi. Just deleting his submissions which are proven cheats doesn't seem sufficient. Sorta makes cheating worth a shot if that's the worst that could happen.

I would suggest (if it is determined that he is cheating..if if if) that "preload" be banned permanently. I don't even care if the player joins under another name (to play honestly, of course) the next day. In principle justice was served. The message was sent.

Nobody ever admits they cheat here.

But a lot of them sure disappeared when alphamame was "required", didn't they?

I have a feeling that we will be fighting these kind of entries until another blocking-type policy is initiated.

What I must make? Play another time to those games and insert the signature "PRE"?

Insert whatever initials you like, but recording similar performances with alphamame70 would help your case. Of course the possiblilty of an external autofire device would still exist.

[Weehawk]

....odds are it's legit play as long as the analinp Chad and Barry use to check the inps show no evidence of RLH or autofire.

he has been busted by programs of Chad and Barry...

[LN2]

Weehawk, TJT was referring to inps from preload in the PAST...not the ones he is currently questioning. Since preload was found to be using that in the past, TJT is semi-assuming preload is doing it again without any solid evidence that is the case.

....at least that's the way I read it.

The only inp Chad has appeared to have checked is a recent 88games inp from preload. Chad states it's not as clear whether autofire was being used like in past ones.

Chad doesn't comment specifically about the T-n-F and clones of T-n-F at all....which are the inps TJT is mostly commenting on.

If these have been checked with analinp and other tools then those results need to be presented before we would know what's going on with these new inps.

Again for me it doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Would you cheat just to get an "ok" score or get a higher score?

The fact TJT presents of preload's 110m hurdle speed being faster than the regular 100m dash speed does at first seem a tad odd....but given the 100m dash is continuously tapping the buttons the entire race but the hurdles in bursts...doesn't really matter of you are tapping right after you press jump...so you get a split-second break before doing another burst of taps....hehe it's very possible someone could end up reaching a slightly faster speed at the hurdles. It's sort of vague to me but I think I would reach higher shown "speeds" for the hurdles also versus the 100m dash but the times of course don't reflect it.

Perhaps preload can do a quick burst of great tapping but can't really sustain it as is necessary for the dash. If you even tap through the jumps but mess up a tad in tapping during a jump it doesn't hurt your speed the way it would in the dash event.

[mahlemiut]

Preload, in his current Track & Field, and '88 Games recordings (including clones) has used Run Like Hell.

[Weehawk]

Weehawk, TJT was referring to inps from preload in the PAST

No, he wasn't.

TJT is semi-assuming preload is doing it again without any solid evidence that is the case.

No, he isn't.

....at least that's the way I read it.

Trust me.

[mahlemiut]

http://mahlemiut.marpirc.net/mame074-konami.zip

Here's a small MAME build that supports just the Konami sports games that use RLH. And it tells you when it's used. Have fun.