tar's Saturn recording

[dskys]

POint taken BBH

I was giving examples of what some might say were dubious tactics in ythe games i play, that's all.

As for the no-breath thing, basicall if you hit 'breathe' 3 times immediately after diving, timing the third so that as you hit the button the swimmer's about to surface, you can swim the rest of the race without having to breathe.

For me this knocks about between 5 and 6 seconds off my time (and consequently makes qualifying on later rounds a formality - if you hit it )

AL asked if I'd watched the two inps above mine as to whether they had used the trick to q on 50s swimming - well as ive said in the past i cant get either of thew inps to play back fully and AL's says that he failed 50s swimming sooooo

FAO Al: did tommi use the breath thing on his winning inp?

[dskys]

I personally don't like the allowance of NVRAM for Hyper Sports.

It can be the same for the arcade also..but just resetting the machine prior to playing.

Do you allow that for many other games?

To be consistent you really would have to require some nvram be used for games that award extra points based on setting event records.

Seriously if you were playing this in an arcade the records would already be great times/distances etc. that would be difficult to match....versus with no records it's fairly easy to set records for each event and get more points for it overall.

Is TJT's inp the only one using NVRAM file there? If none of the others are using it...which IS the rule....cuz to allow NVRAM for this game I would think a special rule would need to be stated there saying you are allowed to use a nvram file for this game....and just submit the nvram file with your inp.

I see no special rule of this type...therefore by default NVRAM isn't allowed so TJT's score should be zeroed out...or discussed and voted on to get the special rule added.

AFAIK you don't get extra points for breaking records in HS? The point with the NVRAM present is that on Pole Vault you can theoretically (on the first round) get an extra 72000 points by SKILLFUL play (assuming lowest record is 5.92)... I don't really class this as cheating cos as people point out 'it's like that in the arcade' but as I use wolfmame I can't use an NVRAM and if i record it on another version of mame (66 eg) i get slowdown . The possibility of massive points on later rounds is not as apparent cos you start higher. As an aside, an extra 72k on my inp would prolly put me almost 1st hehe

[LN2]

The point with the NVRAM present is that on Pole Vault you can theoretically (on the first round) get an extra 72000 points by SKILLFUL play (assuming lowest record is 5.92)...

Yes, I understand it...and that's my point. if the other scores weren't using nvram they miss out on those potential pole vault points that TJT is getting. Maybe some of those other scores should be 16k, 32k, or even higher than they are from not using nvram.

If all of them are using it then fine. I haven't checked them.

MARP rules are you aren't supposed to have any benefit from a previous game. That is essentially what you have here cuz from previous game(s) you have set 5.92(hopefully) for the pole vault and using that in NVRAM for a future game.

I understand your arcade analogy though....but if MARP wants to actually allow NVRAM for this game then a special rule MUST be placed for it....cuz I know when I was playing it I wasn't using NVRAM. I know of others that weren't either.

I brought up the case of flipside games just to prove a point that the ONLY reason TJT and perhaps others want to use NVRAM for this game is to benefit their score...period.

If it really is allowed...then please state it in a special rule for the game and it's clone(s) it would also apply to etc. That way all playing the game seeing the scores first will notice the special rule that nvram is allowed to be used so everyone will have 3 nice 5.92 pv records set before they start doing serious runs for scores.

As you said it makes a pretty good potential difference in score for the first pole vault event.

if this has already been voted on and approved in the past then please have the special rule showing this. Anyone just looking at the scores for that game and knowing MARP rules would assume saved NVRAM is allowed.

Given you use wolfmame that makes it mute in the case of using that mame. I figured if I ever ported wolfmame to MacOS I would make that the default but have a checkbox to force use of nvram while recording in case someone wanted to record or playback an inp and have the score added to their high score nvram table..or for reasons like game exceptions noted here.

[dskys]

yeah it can but i don't really have a problem with it... ateotd the 2nd place score doesnt use it and its still 60k+ ahead of me i think.

back to muddy rules though (was my point )

Actually i dont have a clue what my point was... im a lightweight..... need sleep

[Q.T.Quazar]

btw, to resolve the discussion as much as possible, Tommi's score *is* currently breaking the NVRAM rules.

the thread where we discussed this never went to vote. Al backed off and started recording without NVRAM. Tommi didn't. Here is it for those of you who want to inform themselves.

viewtopic.php?t=4760&highlight=nvram+tommi

Tommi, however is recognized as the best player at MARP on this game, so no one has really felt the need to challenge the validity of his recording.

This game was up for discussion again when we (the editors) originally talked about changing a number of games (Bombjack, Joust) from marathon default settings to harder settings. The idea was that the top 3-5 players on the game would determine the settings they wanted, if a general agreement between them could be reached.

Hypersports was one of the games mentioned as to whether there should be a general .nvram file passed around to record with--the purpose being in spirit with the entire .nvram rule--that all players start from a machine/settings level of equality. This idea never really gained support and as far as the rules go, all NVRAM files must be deleted.

This is, of course, a far different matter than the leeching thread we are supposed to be discussing here. Like BBH, I would also like to know how this technique has garnered five 'no' votes. The rules policy on leeching is pretty clear--maybe one of the 'no' voters would care to explain their choice?

[AL]

Adrian is correct Rick . The only event were NVRAM comes into play is the Pole Vault . If all records are set to default , you don't get extra points for a record .

I think a Special Rule for Hyper Sports + NVRAM should be applied . But if this happens there should only be a 'default' NVRAM file available , and I'm sure the HS players at MARP will agree ? Basically where the WR's on the Pole Vault are all 5m93 , as per usual / average arcade records .

I think Tommi's score should stay btw..( something to aim at....bloody cheater )

AL

p.s sorry Matt about the thread hijack , but I agree and am in favour with you . This apparent serial-leecher doesn't get my vote.

[LN2]

Well, I thought I was quite clear whether it goes to vote or not that given the current MARP rules it needs to be voted on cuz this is an exception to those rules...and when/if passed, a special rule shown for that game and it's clone(s).

until that process is done then using NVRAM with that game is illegal. Any scores using NVRAM should be zeroed until a special rule is added saying it's allowed.

At least that's how I always understood the rules here...

No one is questioning TJT's skill at the game or the score. It's all a rules issue...nothing else.

How will other players know they are allowed to use nvram for this game if it's not stated as a special rule? They wouldn't.

So maybe lets turn that other thread on Hyper Sports into a poll and vote on this already. Whoever started that other thread(would need to look again...hehe) should go ahead and edit it to add a poll.

if they aren't around then let's make a new thread including the handful of posts above and having a poll to vote on it.

I don't mind being in favor of allowing nvram for this game as long as it's stated where ALL players know that it's allowed for this game.

That has me thinking as I should consult TG on this issue as well if they start having MAME scores for this game.

I'm sure the arcade scores TG has for this game had previous established records so you can get more bonuses on the first 2-3 pole vaults.

[Weehawk]

What does the Saturn trick require? The ability to sit there and keep flying up and hammering away at the shoot button once you get into place.

It's even easier than that actually. Once you get to the third stage, just get over to the right hand of the screen, then you can lean something against the "up" button and something against the fire button, then you can walk away. (The fire button repeats if held down).

It's just a question of how long you wish to devote your computer to the task.

I just uploaded a recording slightly besting tar's. I assume I can delete it when the technique is banned. (Assuming it's banned - if it's not I may try to become the first person ever to score a billion points on any video game)

John

[LN2]

(Assuming it's banned - if it's not I may try to become the first person ever to score a billion points on any video game)

ehh? Games like Giga Wing have far beyond a billion.

In fact scores for that game are well up into the trillions..high score is 84 trillion actually.

I guess if you left your system like that firing for several years you might be able to reach that score. hehe

Actually the first person I know of to reach 1 billion points in a video game was the 1 billion score for Nibbler(something like a 52 hour marathon...which is insane for that game) by Tim McVey back in 1983 or 1984. He stopped with a final score of 1,000.042,270.

[Weehawk]

ehh? Games like Giga Wing have far beyond a billion.

Ah well...I was being facetious anyway.

I guess if you left your system like that firing for several years you might be able to reach that score. hehe

Yeah, I was figuring two full days for one billion (unthrottled!) so I guess a trillion is infeasible.

...by Tim McVey back in 1983 or 1984

Hehehe I guess that name didn't cause him much grief...back then.

I guess my real point was: Is this the way we want the competition on this game to proceed?

John

[LN2]

I wonder if it's the same guy?!? Hmmm....

[Weehawk]

I wonder if it's the same guy?!? Hmmm....

Probably coincidence.

I'm sure there's no correlation between marathoning Nibbler, and psychopathic tendencies.

[mahlemiut]

I wouldn't be too sure of that...

[tar]

Great work weehawk! 1.1 million on saturn Win 71. Cool, 7849KB.
Gonna Watch it sometime. Nice score on Magworm 123000.
I saw you had 2 or 3 ships in reserve at 120000. lost them quickly, Argh!
you never placed initials (jtc). I know why, Golly ,Gosh .

[LN2]

I'm sure there's no correlation between marathoning Nibbler, and psychopathic tendencies.

I'm not so sure either...as I think anyone doing 50+ hours on that particular game has some mental issues already. hehe

I have played it for 10-12 hour runs..but always stopped then.

If you aren't familiar with Nibbler, check it out. It's one of the most demanding games around as far as concentration and number of moves per second and precision of moves etc.

I remember in the arcade even training my left hand to be ok to use for a couple waves within each cycle to give my right hand a mini-break here and there....or when I got my men built up to 100+ I would then switch over to my left hand for all waves until I was down to around 70 men, then switch back to my right hand.

I'm sure Tim had to do similar.