WCC4 week 4 : EVILSTON

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Phil Lamat
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WCC4 week 4 : EVILSTON

Post by Phil Lamat »

4th game will be Evil Stone.
As there could be leeching issues (for example Pacman's input was 2nd on Marp but he didn't finish 1st stage and had a better score than 3 players who defeated the first boss), I've decided to reward by 1000000 any chapter completed.
As there is only 6 digits in evilston scores, it consists in gluing the number of chapter(s) completed in front of your score.

I hope it will be enough to convince all players to try to go as far as they can without taking too much care about the score.
IMO everything remains to do in this game ...

I know it's an unusual way of scoring on Marp for games having an in-game scoring, but let's keep it at least for this week of tourney.
In 7 days, we will see (poll ?) if we keep scores with bonus or if we get back to actual scoring (it will be easy to edit back).
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Post by destructor »

Main hero looks as hero from Kyros. :roll:

[EDIT]
Fuck, this game is marathonable as Kyros. Game has 6+1 chapters (last chapter is boss only). After defeated last boss you start game from chapter 1, no harder I think
I don't like marathonable games :(
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Re: WCC4 week 4 : EVILSTON

Post by destructor »

Phil Lamat wrote:As there is only 6 digits in evilston scores, it consists in gluing the number of chapter(s) completed in front of your score.
Yes but 1 million and more is possible. Especially with massive leeching here:
Image
600k on 1 life. Score on this screen is 1,911,100.
I get last extra life after 1,9mln (and one before last after 900k).

Extra lives (12) are after:
30k, 60k, 100k, 200k, 300k, 400k, 500k, 600k, 700k, 800k, 900k, 1,9mln.

[EDIT]
Hey, Phil, you are in hospital again?
What with this 'maximizing points' on stage 5? It is allowed? This method is boring.
With 13 lives your score after it can be 13*600k~7,8mln(this is minimum. Possible is more) + bonus for finished chapters (minimum 4) then total score = 11,8mln.
Maybe bonus 10mln (not 1mln only) for each finished chapter can be solution?

PS. Marathonable games are not good for tournaments where we play for fun because score is depend from free time, not from skills:
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... er_game=99
(my about 4 hours inp I think), and BBH comment for it:
viewtopic.php?p=25318#25318
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Post by Phil Lamat »

Well ... bad week, sorry guys ;
I wasn't expecting this game to be marathonable
(not by everybody, only 2 guys has completed more than a loop ; but that's a fact : game is marathonable as played like now)

First I attached there the inp Destructor has sent me by mail, just to link it to the special rules and make this technic on stage5 definitely banned

Second : tomorrow we will have to decide 2 things :
1-shall we get back to old traditional scoring (without bonus for chapters completed) ? I'm for "yes" on this one
2-shall we change the rules to limit nb of lifes on this game ? or maybe there is a dipswitch to change ?

Debate is open
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Post by destructor »

OK, leeching on stage 5 is banned. But how limit this leeching? I think limit lives is best solution but what with ours hard work (Ace13 and I), delete inps? :?
If we llimit lives to 3 then leeching can be allowed.

I use leeching in my inp (73mln) on stage 5 but only with one life for get more extra lives, I think this is OK.

PS. Ace13 wolf88 inp size=80+MB (score 66mln) , my alpha70 inp size=15MB (score 73mln) :wink:

[EDIT]
2 bonus point for me, and 1 bonus point for Ace13.
Last edited by destructor on Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by QRS »

f) Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list, or in the specific game's special rules. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level.
I know that this rule is not crystal clear.... but come on... at least consider why the rule is there will you?.....
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Post by destructor »

1. If I use 11 lives for leeching and with 12th life I complete level then this is banned or not?
2. If I use 2 lives for leeching and with 3rd life I complete level then this is banned or not?

This rule isn't 'crystal clear' for me. :?

Best is limit lives and allow leeching, I think :roll:
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Post by QRS »

destructor wrote:1. If I use 11 lives for leeching and with 12th life I complete level then this is banned or not?
2. If I use 2 lives for leeching and with 3rd life I complete level then this is banned or not?

This rule isn't 'crystal clear' for me. :?

Best is limit lives and allow leeching, I think :roll:
I said that the rule is NOT crystal clear. My point to all players is... use your head and try to THINK WHY its there in the first place... instead of trying to find holes in it.
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Post by Phil Lamat »

Ace13 has a bigger inp size only because of version used.

Allow leeching ? certainly not if we can avoid it.
The common habit with games with timer which can be leeched is to allow leeching only once : leech if you want, and progress before the time is out. That's what Des did instinctively in his input, and that should be apply for this game

But the second problem is that game is ALSO marathonable ;
so my ideas are :
1- 1 loop only (like for trackfld) ? and maybe a score based on time ?
2- 1 life only ? (there is a dip for that, but won't prevent us from extra I'm afraid)

Other ideas ?
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Post by destructor »

Phil Lamat wrote:1- 1 loop only (like for trackfld) ? and maybe a score based on time ?
No, don't agree :wink: It's not good idea. Game is to easy for 1 loop only and here can be problem with drawn scores.
2- 1 life only ? (there is a dip for that, but won't prevent us from extra I'm afraid)
Better idea than idea 1 but 1 life only?
My suggestions:
3 - 2 lives only.
4 - 3 lives only.
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Post by sawys »

destructor wrote:
Phil Lamat wrote:1- 1 loop only (like for trackfld) ? and maybe a score based on time ?
No, don't agree :wink: It's not good idea. Game is to easy for 1 loop only and here can be problem with drawn scores.
2- 1 life only ? (there is a dip for that, but won't prevent us from extra I'm afraid)
Better idea than idea 1 but 1 life only?
My suggestions:
3 - 2 lives only.
4 - 3 lives only.
I'm back from Paris where i go for 2 days.

My answer : Like i suggested before, 5 lives like bombjack
Sawys is Sébastien GIRAUD, admin of MAMESCORE, member of MARP, TWIN GALAXIES, RETRO UPRISING and ex-member of JVRM :-D
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Post by TRB_MetroidTeam »

I think 1-loop only is not good. 1-life only is the same.

Restrict lives to play is the way (what is the starting number of lives? 3?), and continue using the WCC4 system (1million for loop). Hmmm... I hate maratonable play, and this system don't solve the maratonable problem, however help with the leeching problem (at least you will need to maximize your leeching and finish the stage using the same life).
One advantage of this format is that leeching all your 3 (!) lives in only one stage (in the same loop) is WORST than complete a couple of rounds/loops.

Hmmm... this was my opinion. And this game is not easy to decide it.

By the way... Destructor and Ace13... do you know what would be your record using this format? What is your score when lost your 3rd life?
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Post by TRB_MetroidTeam »

Phil... one correction to do...
You edited Sawys score in the Evilston ranking, however you need to change it in the WCC4 Ranking too.
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Post by destructor »

TRB_MetroidTeam wrote:By the way... Destructor and Ace13... do you know what would be your record using this format? What is your score when lost your 3rd life?
I don't remember. Probably poor, because I record game in last hours and didn't have time to restart game when I do stupid mistake and lose lives.
I can marathon this game in each "lives limit" option, with 1 life even.
But I don't want to back to this game if no money to win :D
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Post by TRB_MetroidTeam »

destructor wrote:I can marathon this game in each "lives limit" option, with 1 life even.
Yes... I know YOU can do an excellent record if would be 1-life only. But ME NOT! :-)
destructor wrote: But I don't want to back to this game if no money to win :D
Hehehe... for sure... this game played at this system is very exhaustive!
IMO, I would try to play it only if the money was VERY HIGH. And I still would THINK a lot about it ;-)
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